Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!mailrus!ames!pasteur!ucbvax!CS.UCL.AC.UK!jon
From: jon@CS.UCL.AC.UK (Jon Crowcroft)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP "comform" to ISO/OSI?
Message-ID: <8809101828.AA08806@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 10 Sep 88 16:25:59 GMT
References: <12429004411.28.LYNCH@A.ISI.EDU>
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: The Internet
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Dan,

 hear hear here - lets here a technical discussion - we are computer
 *scientists* are'nt we...

 i dont understand why both iso7498 fans and rfc79? fans are so
 partisan, rather than regarding both worlds as partial solutions to
 be implemented/converged to by vendors, whatever, and getting on with 
 how we could
 both do better next time (being a scientist by training, i dont believe in 
 'getting it right' - see Karl Popper, Objective Knowledge, pp1 to about 800).

 Just how is TP4 'broken' (apart from unreliable close, and packet
 mode rather than byte stream, and a reference number rather than
 ports).

 So whats wrong with CLNP, cept maybe it mandates a few things that
 weren't mandated in IP/ICMP.

 So whats so good about everyone and their brother building wrong
 transaction protocols over UDP because they claim TCP costs too
 much, doesnt do transactions etc

 etc

 etc

 You guys in the US shouldnt have to worry over the X.25 alternative,
 but in Europe, we gonna have hi-speed ISDN to map 7498 into - now
 theres a problem to think about, do we want TP4/CLNP over a reliable
 640 Mbps bit pipe to carry video and bronze-medallion reference
 models, or X25 pkt and LLC levels, or might we want to listen to what 
 the Dave Clarks and Cheritons of the world are messing with...

 i guess marshall is right that ISO represents the Big picture, 
 but its a Cecil B. de Mille picture that lasts about 20 years, except
 for being remembered by a few old dears at xmas - where's the Citezen Kane 
 of protocol architectures
 (ow, mixed metaphors arent part of physics training)


sorry to rant on, i hate working on saturdays

 jon