Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!ubvax!ardent!kmw From: kmw@ardent.UUCP (Ken Wallich) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac Subject: Re: Apple Gets Greedier (LONG and angry) Message-ID: <580@ardent.UUCP> Date: 14 Sep 88 19:26:41 GMT References: <1018@lakesys.UUCP> <68072@sun.uucp> <247@rna.UUCP> Reply-To: kmw@ardent.UUCP (Ken Wallich) Distribution: na Organization: Ardent Computer Lines: 128 In article <247@rna.UUCP> marc@rna.UUCP (Marc Johnson) writes: [...] >Apple has been playing both sides of the >fence for a long time now - "the computer for the rest of us" - with an >(at least) implied promise that the Apple way of doing things would continue >to be made available to a body of folks who saw the limitations of the IBM >way of doing things. This includes a lot of "low end" buyers who don't have >to answer to a boss who wants Big Blue on the desks in the office. [...] How long have you been buying Apple products? Was the Apple II a significant technical advance over the Atari 800? Nope, the Atari had faster graphics, was *capable* of doing everything that the Apple was, people chose to buy the Apple, at THREE TIMES the price. Was apple your buddy then? Nope, they were maximizing profit. Then there was the $10,000 Lisa. People figured that was just too much to spend, even if the technology was neat, and it failed. Then there was the 128k Mac. Remember that? No software, just a cute little box with a cute little paint program and a silly memo-writer, and in *only* cost $2000. Gee, Apple was really looking for friends then, huh? They were selling something that no one else had, and people who thought it was a good idea plunked down their cash. If you bought one because you felt that Apple was going to feel you were a member of some elite community, you were hallucinating. Oh, then there was the *upgrade* to the "fat mac", at only $1000. Many people went and got 3rd party upgrades (like me), because Apple wasn't being our friend, they were selling the upgrade for what they could get for it. Oh, then we got the Mac+. I could upgrade what is now a 512KE (I spent 2k for it, $400 on a memory upgrade, and another $300 on the rom/disc upgrade) for around $800 to be a MacPlus. Or I could go buy a used one for $1200, or a new one for $1500 ($1799 RETAIL). Is Apple being my pal? Nope, they are getting what they feel the market will pay, just like they have always done. It seems to have worked well for them. When did Apple ever say the "rest of us" meant people who can only afford an inexpensive computer? Apple has never made an inexpensive computer (although I think the current pricing for the MacPlus is reasonable), it has never said it would, and probably never will. It makes what it considers to be good computers (and a lot of folks agree), and sells them for the maximum dollar amount that people will buy them at. The "Apple way of doing things"??? I think they have kept their promise. Welcome to capitalism. [...] >It was kind of, "buy Apple and >we'll take care of you" (to some extent). The comment about Apple not being >in business to be your buddy is certainly true, but they surely professed a >far more, shall we say, cooperative attitude. When? When did apple ever tell you that they would "take care of you"? You are assuming from their corporate image that making a profit is not their number one concern. What drivel! When was the last time you saw a large corporation gear its entire buisness strategy to being a nice guy? Apple is still providing the MacPlus at an inexpensive price. Their other machines are higher performance, and they are attempting to capture the buisness and technical marketplace, where people can afford to pay the prices they are asking. Why should they provide an entire product line at a price below what the market they are targeting can afford to pay? >Just to take one blatant example, >how is it that 4 or 5 other floppy drive makers can sell top-quality 3.5" >drives at 60-70% of Apple's price, just to take one blatant example? Gosh, have you looked at the accessory price for other large companies' peripherals? Sun, HP, IBM, DEC all sell hard discs, tape drives and other peripherals for far more than you can buy third party units. Why do people buy them? Because they are *supported* by a trusted manufacturer to work well with the machine. You can also have *one company* do *all* the repair work on your machine. That is worth a lot to companies who would invest more money in breaking machines down into their components to get them serviced. If you feel you can get a peripheral that is as good or better (or simply cheaper) by other means, Apple doesn't tell you not to. If you want the Apple name on all your peripherals, you have to pay extra. Look at Apples 13" monitor. They bumped the price on it too. Why would anyone have paid $999 for the monitor when you could go buy a 'regular' Sony Multiscan (like I did)? Because it had Apples logo, you knew it would work, and you knew where to bring it if it didn't. What about their hard discs. They have always been overpriced. You can buy virtually the same drive for half the price, but it won't have the Apple logo. It is important to some people, and companies provide peripherals for those people. >All of the hand-waving mumbo-jumbo of another article in this group is total >bull. Raise prices to cut the demand? Baloney! Raise prices to RIDE the >demand! It's a game of chicken - how high can we raise the prices before >folks abandon ship? Yup, that is exactly what it is. It is a sellers market, and Apple is taking advantage of it. To do otherwise would be a foolish buisness decision. You try to make it sound bad, but that's the way it works. It doesn't have to, and I don't necessarily agree that it should be that way, but... >I felt that even buying a MacPlus 2 years ago was >really stretching, and hard to justify, but I felt that the investment in >the Apple approach was worth it. I know others had the same feeling. >Now we have lots of software demanding greater capacity and the SE suddenly >becomes the low-end machine you "have to have." And waddyaknow, the SE >goes way up in price!! This only enhances the (mis-)perception that the SE is >somehow significantly superior to the Plus. Ohhh, I see. An SE is NOT "significantly superior to the Plus", but you *need* to use the "greater capacity" of the SE for these new software packages. What do they require that the Plus cannot obtain? More memory? You can put at least 2 meg into the Plus, you can even get an excelerator card from a third party if you think you "need" it. The high end packages that use a lot of memory, cost a lot of money too (save Hypercard). The only thing you cannot do in one meg with "ordinary" software is run MultiFinder, if you don't have the memory, the old Finder is ready to help you out. The Mac has become popular. Some of us had hoped it would be someday, and are now seeing the results of popularity. Mediocre software products, overpriced software products, expensive peripherals, expensive computers. It is not just a group of "Apple followers" who are now willing to plunk down their cash for a nifty Apple box, it is not just "Mac fanatics" who are building software for it. It has become a real computer, with all the pitfalls that come with it. It is occasionally the curse of visionaries to see their visions fulfulled. Of course, I could be wrong :-O. -- Ken Wallich Ardent Computer Corp uunet!ardent!kmw Sunnyvale, California, USA "Slimey? Mud hole? My HOME this is!"