Xref: utzoo comp.unix.xenix:3502 comp.unix.questions:9528 comp.unix.microport:1702 alt.sources:267 Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!uwmcsd1!marque!uunet!l5comp!scotty From: scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.microport,alt.sources Subject: Re: flames are on! Summary: Turn 'em up HIGH! Keywords: flames Message-ID: <440@l5comp.UUCP> Date: 2 Oct 88 12:26:06 GMT References: <1930@turnkey.TCC.COM> Reply-To: scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) Organization: L5 Computing, Edmonds, WA Lines: 111 [Those interested in downloading TeX from Sandy's BBS may wish to skip my counterflames and read the section of this article which describes how long and how much it will cost to download TeX from Sandy's BBS] In article <1930@turnkey.TCC.COM> sandy@turnkey.TCC.COM (Sanford 'Sandy' Zelkovitz) writes: [Bunch of garbage from Sandy, not clearly thought out or researched and quite frankly, due to the very personal attacks, should have been sent via E-Mail to clear this mess up before dragging the net into it.] I think Sandy's message confirms my posting that he did indeed deliberately split the X10R4 sources into 350,000 chunks so you could only get one chunk a day. I have since researched this matter to find that most of the larger items on his BBS follow this sizing policy. Sandy also doesn't take the time to mention that I offered him access to ANYTHING he wanted off uunet (which l5comp has a trailblazer connection with) in exchange for X10R4. Why no mention of that in your FLAME attack Sandy? Trying to distract people away from yer policy? In fact why the personal attack saying I don't like to share when I offered to do just that? I'm confused. :( After logging in again and finding no message from Sandy in reply to my postings (note, that's postings not posting) I wracked my brain and came up with the uucp approach. It worked great. And I still intended to send Sandy anything he wanted off uunet, I even offered him a directory listing and several suggestions about items I thought he might like. And if he bothered to check the time on the USENET posting against his uucp logs he would find that the USENET posting was made before the uucp downloads! Using uucp really did come to me as a brain storm Sandy. Even as I setup to try it I wasn't certain that the same restrictions weren't in affect on uucp as well. And your system did hang up twice costing me nearly an hour in wasted download time (it waited till byte count 290,00 to drop the line rather than in between files.) I'm PLENTY willing to share, I've said so all along. I think you're just a teensy bit sensitive about your draconian "BY GOD YOU WILL SHARE WITH ME!" policy and probably thought I was such a sleeze that I'd grab the goods and not honor my offer. (About the only reasoning I can come up with for your line of attack) I'm happy to say I'm not quite the tiny person you seem convinced I am. Whatever the outcome of my conflict with Sandy, my posting about his system is still 100% accurate. However, it can be extended by saying that if you have as many bytes to upload as you want to download you can get the bytes faster. Or is it if you upload 200K a day you can download 700K a day? I'd ask Sandy but he seems too emotional on this topic. :( ----------Begin section on "How long and how much $$$ to get TeX?"--------- Here's what uunet has to say about TeX: /usr/spool/ftp/TeX: total 21899 That's 21.899Mb folks. Let's see, we'll assume 2400 baud login and the user will upload 200K a day and download 700K a day (giving Sandy the benefit of the doubt on his "sharing" policy), how long will it take? His box gave 729KB per hour at 2400 baud so the user will JUST be able to download/upload his daily 900K if the line stays clean and he moves around quickly from the upload to download area. You'll note that uploading more than 200K won't get you more than 700K per day since you'll run into the 90 minute login limit. So at 700K per day that will mean 32 days of downloading/uploading. Plus you will have to come up with 6,200,000 bytes of trade goods. (Assuming you can find things that come out to EXACTLY 200,000 bytes for 31 days, and you have very few minutes per day to see if he already has what you intend to upload) What will the above cost? Well assuming $9 an hour for long distance that works out to roughly $432 plus state/federal taxes above the $9 an hour rate. Now, if you don't upload anything to Sandy's BBS what are the figures? Download time in days: 62 days (damn I was off by 1 day!) Download cost: roughly $279 So, if you're willing to take an extra month doing it you can save yerself around $153. A potential downloader should also be aware that getting into Sandy's BBS can take a LONG time. A demon dialer and about an hour should get you through though. But you may need to set aside 2.5 hours a night for 31 to 62 days in order to grab TeX. I don't think my original warning was all that far out of line now was it Sandy? After your ill-researched PUBLIC attack upon my character I don't know if thanks are still in order for allowing me to download X10R4, but I'll extend them anyway and hope I don't draw back a stump in the process. Thank you! Anyway, even if you aren't hunting for TeX I think most people may want to give Sandy's BBS a call. It's one of the BEST unix BBS' I've ever run across. His selection is MUCH richer than even that available on uunet. (Although uunet does have several items he doesn't) Well worth the call if you're looking for something less massive than TeX. (But also compounding the problems for those poor souls trying to come up with 200,000 bytes a day for 31 days) Scott Turner scotty@l5comp -or- uunet!l5comp!scotty