Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!seismo!sundc!pitstop!sun!amdahl!nsc!glennw
From: glennw@nsc.nsc.com (Glenn Weinberg)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: keyboards
Summary: VT200 keyboard IS an ISO layout
Keywords: keyboard, DEC, ISO
Message-ID: <6722@nsc.nsc.com>
Date: 30 Sep 88 22:15:34 GMT
References: <3518@phri.UUCP> <2800001@modcomp> <349@laic.UUCP>
Reply-To: glennw@nsc.UUCP (Glenn Weinberg)
Organization: National Semiconductor, Sunnyvale
Lines: 56

In article <2800001@modcomp> joe@modcomp.UUCP writes:
>
>Roy Smith writes:
>
>> Clearly, what the world needs is a standard keyboard interface, and a
>> choice of keyboards from which users can pick and choose as they like,
>> regardles of what system they are on.  Apple's ADB is at least a start
>> in this direction.
>
>WARNING: RUMOR COMING YOUR WAY :-)
>I believe ISO standardized a keyboard quite a few years ago, and that
>the first commercial product which used it was the IBM PC jr.

In fact, the DEC VT200/300 terminals that everyone's been bashing are,
in fact, ISO keyboards.  We can argue about the fact that the layout
stinks, but believe it or not they are an international standard.

In article <349@laic.UUCP> darin@nova.laic.uucp (Darin Johnson) writes:
>Speaking of silly layouts etc., my most annoying terminal is
>the vt200 series (which I use 99% of the time).  First off,
>it looks nice, has a detached keyboard, doesn't hog your
>desk, keys have a nice feel, etc.  However, DEC, in their
>omniscience, decided to not have an escape key.  In vt100
>emulation mode, you can have an escape key, but it is above
>the "-" key of all places.  In vt200 mode, you don't have an
>escape key at all!!  (presumably, since no VAX/VMS products
>use an ESC, they figured no-one would miss it)

You're right about the early VT200's.  However, DEC did actually learn
something, and the more recent versions, and the VT300's, allow you to
remap the offending keys so the keyboard looks more like what you'd
want.  (Details: you can make the "~`" key in the upper-left-hand corner
transmit ESC; the "><" key in the lower-left-hand corner transmit "~`",
and the "<X|" key in the upper-right-hand corner transmit BS.  This
makes typing "~" and "`" something of a pain, but I at least use them
much less often than ESC or BS--except, of course, when writing articles
like this one :-)  So, if your management really insists that you buy DEC,
at least you can make the keyboard tolerable.

One other point.  The VT200 was one of the first ASCII terminals (in the US
anyway) to truly support 8-bit characters (i.e., not just 7-bit
characters in an 8-bit field).  From an EMACS point of view in particular,
this is a very attractive capability.  Of course, on the downside (there
always seems to be a downside, unfortunately :-), the 8-bit set is not
one of the standard ISO Latin sets, although it is close.

MAJOR DISCLAIMER:  Please don't take this as a sales pitch for VT200/300
terminals.  I am not a big fan of theirs.  I just thought I'd try and
shed some light on the situation since there seemed to be so little
real data in this discussion.  (And yes, I am typing this on a VT320,
and although I have the keys remapped so I can survive in EMACS, I still
don't like the feel of the keys and I have to stretch my pinkies much too
far to hit RETURN or CTRL.)
-- 
Glenn Weinberg					Email: glennw@nsc.nsc.com
National Semiconductor Corporation		Phone: (408) 721-8102
(My opinions are strictly my own, but you can borrow them if you want.)