Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!ames!pasteur!ucbvax!MCNC.ORG!ravi From: ravi@MCNC.ORG (Ravi Subrahmanyan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Bounced messages: groups of 10 Message-ID: <8809292012.AA03194@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: 29 Sep 88 20:12:28 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 526 From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 05:23:12 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA10957; Sat, 24 Sep 88 05:23:12 EDT Message-Id: <8809240923.AA10957@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 02:22:22-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 02:22:57 Status: RO Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 02:23:04-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA00443; Tue, 20 Sep 88 23:40:33 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 20 Sep 88 14:59:31 GMT From: nunki.usc.edu!sal5.usc.edu!rjung@oberon.usc.edu (Robert allen Jung) Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Subject: Re: spectra 128 Message-Id: <1417@nunki.usc.edu> References: <8809191251.AA15678@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <8809191251.AA15678@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> nfrech@ALMSA-1.ARPA ("Norman R. Frech") writes: >... is it absolutely necessary to have >a monochome monitor? You don't need a monochrome monitor for the Spectre 128, but it looks nicer. If you're using a color monitor, then grey shades are used for the screen, and the locations of the pixels are mapped to different shades (since the Mac monitor has more pixels vertically than the ST's medium resolution has). You can also hit a key and get a fully-mapped view of the top/bottom half of the screen. --R.J. B-) P.S. This is the same trick the Magic Sac uses for its color monitor support. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: These are my views, and mine alone. # ## # Mailing address: Beats me, just reply to this message # ## # (rjung@sa132.usc.edu?) ## ## ## #### ## #### ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 11:56:10 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA12659; Sat, 24 Sep 88 11:56:10 EDT Message-Id: <8809241556.AA12659@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 08:52:06-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 08:49:52 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 08:50:00-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA08461; Wed, 21 Sep 88 07:19:08 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 21 Sep 88 12:44:23 GMT From: steinmetz!mazda!perley@itsgw.rpi.edu (Donald P Perley) Organization: General Electric CRD, Schenectady, NY Subject: Re: Boycott Apple Again -- Now about Suns Message-Id: <12196@steinmetz.ge.com> References: <14301@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>, <406@stag.math.lsa.umich.edu>, <620@bnlux0.bnl.gov> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <620@bnlux0.bnl.gov> drs@bnlux0.UUCP (David R. Stampf) writes: >In article <406@stag.math.lsa.umich.edu> hyc@math.lsa.umich.edu (Howard Chu) writes: >>Lots and lots of problems, no single one of which renders a Sun totally >>unusable, but altogether adding up to too many headaches. Bad network >>support, flaky network services, etc. etc. etc... For a company whose >>motto is "the network is the computer" it's pretty disgusting how >>poorly their network software runs. > I really think that Howard's opinions are in the >minority viewpoint. So much so in fact, that it would be interesting to >find out what he *would* recommend to his worst enemies as an alternative. I know I wouldn't reccomend a Sun to my worst enemy. What WOULD I recomend to my worst enemy? If I told you that here, I would probably make more enemies. -don perley ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 13:23:25 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA12898; Sat, 24 Sep 88 13:23:25 EDT Message-Id: <8809241723.AA12898@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 10:22:05-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 10:03:54 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 10:03:58-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA09532; Wed, 21 Sep 88 08:27:18 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 20 Sep 88 11:43:29 GMT From: eagle!icdoc!dcw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Duncan C White) Organization: Dept. of Computing, Imperial College, London, UK. Subject: Another TurboDos problem Message-Id: <438@gould.doc.ic.ac.uk> References: <19880907153917.7.JRD@MOA.SCRC.Symbolics.COM> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Recently, there have have been several messages describing some more problems with TurboDos... I would like to describe another problem: A friend of mine [without net access] recently bought Metacomco Pascal-2. This uses the same [GST] linker as does Metacomco Lattice C 3.04.01, a product which I have bought. Well, when any Pascal program [even one as simple as "hello world"] is compiled on an SH204 with TurboDos running, the linker reckons that the .bin file produced by the compiler is not a valid linker format file.. After much experimentation, we found that rebooting without TurboDos and recompiling fixed the problem... this is irritating, however, to say the least... does anyone know why this should happen? All I could think of was that Pascal-2 doesn't close the .bin file down properly?? [Whereas Lattice C does, presumably?] Can anyone explain what's happening here? I will happily summarise any replies I get... Thanks.. Duncan [If dcw@gould.uucp fails, try dcw@doc.ic.ac.uk] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Duncan White, | Flying is the art of aiming oneself Dept. Of Computing, | at the ground and missing. Imperial College, | -- Douglas Adams, So Long and Thanks London SW7, England | for all the fish. ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 13:23:38 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA12903; Sat, 24 Sep 88 13:23:38 EDT Message-Id: <8809241723.AA12903@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 10:22:06-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 10:04:43 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 10:04:47-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA09794; Wed, 21 Sep 88 08:44:13 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 19 Sep 88 11:16:12 GMT From: mcvax!ukc!strath-cs!glasgow!whitbye@uunet.uu.net (Elliot Maxwell Whitby) Organization: Computing Sci, Glasgow Univ, Scotland Subject: Re: Writing to write protected disks? Message-Id: <1633@crete.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> References: <614@ethz.UUCP> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Yes it is unfortunately possible to write to write protected disks. This is a great idea for software protection, which I personally don't believe in, but you do get the unscrupulous people who are that bad that they will ruin everybody else's fun by writing pointless viusses which are no use to absolutely anyonee ps Borf is here. ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 13:23:54 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA12908; Sat, 24 Sep 88 13:23:54 EDT Message-Id: <8809241723.AA12908@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 10:22:07-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 10:08:50 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 10:09:08-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA09894; Wed, 21 Sep 88 08:50:06 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 19 Sep 88 11:59:54 GMT From: mcvax!ukc!strath-cs!glasgow!whitbye@uunet.uu.net (Elliot Maxwell Whitby) Organization: Computing Sci, Glasgow Univ, Scotland Subject: ST Moria Message-Id: <1634@crete.cs.glasgow.ac.uk> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Recently I at last managed to pick up a copy of Moria for the ST from comp.binaries.atari.st but unfortumately I don't seem to be able to uudecode it properly. When I uudecode the files it comes up with the error short file and when I cat the relevant files together it comes up with the error no last line. It has taken me so long to get this, and now that I have it I can't use it Can anybody tell me what I am doing wrong please. ps Any chance of someone outside Europe replying to this message anyway, because I am not sure I am getting to anywhere outside Europe let alone ouside the UK. pps Borf is here. ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 13:24:09 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA12913; Sat, 24 Sep 88 13:24:09 EDT Message-Id: <8809241724.AA12913@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 10:22:08-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 10:12:24 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 10:12:27-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA09606; Wed, 21 Sep 88 08:32:34 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 20 Sep 88 11:45:13 GMT From: eagle!icdoc!dcw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Duncan C White) Organization: Dept. of Computing, Imperial College, London, UK. Subject: A Hard disk problem Message-Id: <439@gould.doc.ic.ac.uk> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Hi there everyone, I have a problem with my hard disk: at the recent Personal Computer [World] Show in London, I bought the Hisoft FTL Modula-2 compiler for the ST. [Show price, 90 quid including source level debugger and profiler and make and resource editor] I was happily installing this onto my SH204 hard disk, using the Desktop to copy disk 3 of 4 when the blasted ST collapsed in a heap.. Vertical lines appeared on the screen, and I had to power off.. Sadly, the result is that the \M2\FTL directory I was installing into is totally corrupted: if I open it with the Desktop the ST crashes again, complete with vertical lines. If, instead, I use Gulam and cd into the FTL subdirectory, the machine doesn't crash, but ls reveals total garbage.. The rest of the disk is fine however. So, what I want to do is remove the garbaged directory and start again. What I thought might be possible is the following: Recursively follow the directory structure, [except \M2\FTL of course] and follow each cluster used by each file: Mark in an array which clusters/sectors are used. Then, when I have finished the traversal, blank the FAT entry for every cluster/sector which the array marks as unused. Now the crunch: I don't know enough about the FAT format to do this. The only information I have is from an MS-DOS book "Tricks of the MS-DOS Masters" which helpfully says "the format of the FAT is beyond the scope of this book"... it recommends the "MS-DOS Developer's Guide" which I do not have. So, I wonder, would anyone care to tell me the format of the FAT table, and any other information I might need [partition table, boot sector??] or better yet, does anyone have source doing something similar to what I want to do ??? [C preferred, Pascal, Modula-2 and 68k assembler acceptable, 8086 assembler deplored but ok, if it's all you've got..] If you care to mail me, I'll gladly post a summary of anything I get.. [post only if you can't find a path to me] Thanks in advance, everyone... Duncan. [If dcw@gould.uucp fails, try dcw@doc.ic.ac.uk] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Duncan White, | Flying is the art of aiming oneself Dept. Of Computing, | at the ground and missing. Imperial College, | -- Douglas Adams, So Long and Thanks London SW7, England | for all the fish. ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 14:54:18 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA13317; Sat, 24 Sep 88 14:54:18 EDT Message-Id: <8809241854.AA13317@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 11:52:03-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 11:35:20 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 11:35:25-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA10651; Wed, 21 Sep 88 09:35:48 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 20 Sep 88 16:50:23 GMT From: mcvax!hp4nl!philmds!leo@uunet.uu.net (Leo de Wit) Organization: Philips I&E DTS Eindhoven Subject: Re: SG-10 Printer:Different character sets Message-Id: <812@philmds.UUCP> References: <1103@fredonia.UUCP> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <1103@fredonia.UUCP> sale5312@fredonia.UUCP (Marty Saletta) writes: > Yes,I'd like to know if some fellow ST user who has a Star Micronics > SG-10 printer has been able to change the character set for the Near > Letter Quality (NLQ) mode. I'm not even sure if it's possible. I have > some config programs and drivers for the printer,but none to change the > char set. Any help? Thanks in advance. A while ago I posted a NLQPS (Near Letter Quality & Proportional Spacing) program to one of the comp.{binaries,sources}.atari.st newsgroups. It works very well (if I may say so myself 8-) with my old Star Gemini 10X printer, which doesn't have an NLQ mode. It does a double scan of each text line in graphics mode with a very tiny linefeed inbetween (1/144 inch). The PS option can be turned off (e.g. for listings, tables). An older version had the capability to load the characterset used dynamically from a file. I removed that option, thinking that there would be no interest. If you (and perhaps some other people too) would like that, I can add back that option. In that case there has to be added a font editor too so you can easily define a new NLQ font. Ah, perhaps a two phase project... Leo. P.S. To be able to use the NLQPS program, you must have a printer that can do double density graphics, and linefeeds of half a dot distance (1/144 inch), but I think today most printers can do that. ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 15:25:07 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA13408; Sat, 24 Sep 88 15:25:07 EDT Message-Id: <8809241925.AA13408@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 12:22:02-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 12:17:30 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 12:17:47-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA11813; Wed, 21 Sep 88 10:46:45 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 21 Sep 88 14:56:26 GMT From: nunki.usc.edu!sal6.usc.edu!rjung@oberon.usc.edu (Robert allen Jung) Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Subject: Re: Publishing Partner Amateur Message-Id: <1425@nunki.usc.edu> References: <2992@dalcs.UUCP>, <11830008@hpldola.HP.COM> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <11830008@hpldola.HP.COM> ritchie@hpldola.HP.COM (Dave Ritchie) writes: > I was looking through one of the Amiga rags he other day and - surprise - >Soft Logik is doing a PP for the Amiga. Isn't that strange? Nope. Quality software eventually gets translated for lesser machines. B-) --R.J. B-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: These are my views, and mine alone. # ## # Mailing address: Beats me, just reply to this message # ## # (rjung@sa132.usc.edu?) ## ## ## #### ## #### ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 16:24:20 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA13621; Sat, 24 Sep 88 16:24:20 EDT Message-Id: <8809242024.AA13621@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 13:23:43-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 13:12:09 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 13:12:22-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA12963; Wed, 21 Sep 88 11:58:41 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 21 Sep 88 18:03:28 GMT From: orange.cis.ohio-state.edu!amra@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Nasir K Amra) Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Computer and Information Science Subject: uniterm & dialup Message-Id: <22215@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu I am having problems trying to dial the modem from uniterm v20d. I set the number in the dial directory and then press 1 to dial the number, however although I get 'ATD2923112' on the screen, it doesn't dial up the number. Can anyone help me here? ------- From Mailer@Score.Stanford.EDU Sat Sep 24 20:53:10 1988 Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by speedy.mcnc.org (5.59/MCNC/5-16-88) id AA14742; Sat, 24 Sep 88 20:53:10 EDT Message-Id: <8809250053.AA14742@speedy.mcnc.org> Date: Sat 24 Sep 88 17:51:56-PDT From: The Mailer Daemon To: info-atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Subject: Message of 21-Sep-88 17:35:14 Status: R Message undeliverable and dequeued after 3 days: *PS:ATARI16.INCOMING@Score.Stanford.EDU.#Internet: Disk quota exceeded ------------ Received: from ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU by SCORE.STANFORD.EDU with TCP; Wed 21 Sep 88 17:35:19-PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.59/1.31) id AA15484; Wed, 21 Sep 88 14:36:35 PDT Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for atari16-programs@score.stanford.edu (info-atari16@score.stanford.edu) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 21 Sep 88 16:51:28 GMT From: oliveb!3comvax!bridge2!ngg@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Norman Goodger) Organization: 3Com Corp., Mt. View, CA Subject: Re: Genie? Message-Id: <88@bridge2.3Com.Com> References: <861@viscous>, <2279@silver.bacs.indiana.edu>, <881@viscous> Sender: info-atari16-request@score.stanford.edu To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <881@viscous>, sethk@sco.COM (Seth I Katz) writes: > chatterchatterchatter<2279@silver.bacs.indiana.edu>chatterchatterstowe@silver.UUCP (holly): > | > Ok, everyone and their uncle has been clever enough to repeat the point that > GEnie never claimed that they didn't charge for download time. > > I'd like to see someone stand up for that piece of garbage mailer of theirs. > > BTW, I don't know how rich you folks are, but I think $5 an hour is not > cheap. Do we base our standards on Compu$erve? > -s Yes a variety of comparsions are made to CIS and their $12.50 plus surcharges in some cases for 1200 baud connections. This does make $5.00 much cheaper. And Genie provides many of the same services, and some CIS doesn't and of course vice/versa. As far as GEnie mail and the BB software, there is room for improvement, but CIS could use some to, either method has its drawbacks if looked at very closely. The thing about Genie is you need to take the time to learn how to use the software effectively, there are a lot of options and it can be quite powerful if you learn to use them to your advantage...this means reading the manual, and getting out there and just spend some time seeing what the commands do, and ask questions if something does not work like you expected....most of the problems it appears is that users of Genie that have a hard time using it come from not reading the manual, or not taking that couple minutes to ask the questions to learn how to use it. Norm Goodger 3Com Sysop - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 -------