Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!ihlpl!knudsen
From: knudsen@ihlpl.ATT.COM (Knudsen)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with this Picture?
Message-ID: <7014@ihlpl.ATT.COM>
Date: 3 Oct 88 20:39:45 GMT
References: <6981@ihlpl.ATT.COM> <1988Oct2.021158.15076@utzoo.uucp>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
Lines: 43

In article <1988Oct2.021158.15076@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes:
> People who claim the Soviets stole the design of their shuttle from the
> US are (a) underestimating the Soviets, (b) underestimating the degree
> to which good design is dictated by the laws of nature, and (c) ignoring
> the ways in which their design is better.

OK, I'll remember the :-) next time.  Actually, my posting resulted from
my surprise at a number of things:
   Speculation had been that the Soviet shuttle would be titanium
wings (like our old DynaSoar idea) and not tiles.  Now I've always
thought that tiles were an elegant usage of exotic materials,
but I've seen them poo-pooed on this newsgroup as yet another NASA
sleazy cost-cutting.  As if we really *should* use solid titanium
or tungsten or whatever.  So the Soviet color scheme suggested that
they too consider tiles worthwhile.  Unless they just painted the
thing that way for the photo.  Maybe they just tile the
leading edges, the rest is bare metal.

> Also, don't overlook the fact that the Soviets have a bit of an inferiority
> complex, and might choose trivia like the paint scheme to resemble the US
> one deliberately:  "see, we can build one like that too".

You'd think that inferiority complex would be gone by now, but...

> The Soviet shuttle orbiter is just an unusually-shaped payload for Energia;
> the orbiter has no major engines of its own.

I knew what the Energia was, but I was fooled by the camera angle
(which hid the main engines) into thinking the engines were on
the orbiter.  I'd alos heard the orbiter was supposed to be just
dead payload on an Energia or Proton, but this photo looked
otherwise.  If the Soviets intended dis-information, they
scored big on me.

Overall, I'm surprised (plesantly) by how thoroughly the Reds have
followed our design, including bothering with a Shuttle at all.
Of course, our mistake was not indeveloping the shuttle, but doing
it to the exclusion of other launchers.  The Soviets instead have
*integrated* their shuttle as anothger "customer" of big boosters.
And they don't have to glide and land those heavy engines.

Do they parachute-recover Energia boosters, or are they cheap enough
to forget about?  "Cheap" may mean different in the USSR.