Xref: utzoo comp.arch:6687 alt.next:183
Path: utzoo!hoptoad!amdcad!weitek!pyramid!cbmvax!daveh
From: daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.next
Subject: Re: The NeXT Problem
Message-ID: <5024@cbmvax.UUCP>
Date: 18 Oct 88 17:09:45 GMT
References: <521@fabscal.UUCP>
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
Lines: 59

in article <521@fabscal.UUCP>, dorn@fabscal.UUCP (Alan Dorn Hetzel) says:

>>It seems that the NeXT machine may have a few problems:
>>
>>1) Outdated Processor Technology: NeXT just missed the wave of fast RISC 
>>   processors.  The 5 MIPS 68030 is completely out performed by the currently
>>   available RISC chips (Motorola, MIPS, Sparc) that run at approximately
>>   20 VAX (they claim) MIPS.  In a year or two, ECL versions of some of these
>>   RISC chips will be running at 40 to 50 MIPS.

Priced the ~8 MIPS Sun 4 lately?  Or the ~14 MIPS 88K chipset.  How about
an Apollo 10K?  RISC machines are starting to get fast, and they're even
starting to get down in price, but these two directions haven't met yet.

>>6) Sun (I have heard) has sold 15,000 workstations to universitys.  How many
>>   can NeXT expect to sell with its slow processor, non-standard bus/software, 
>>   slow drive, and late software?

Since the VAST majority of Suns sold to universities are Sun 3s (68020 based)
and below (believe it or not, folks STILL use Sun 2s here and there), I don't
think a 68030 based system, even NeXT's, which isn't an especially fast 68030
system (they're running it's memory at about 1/2 the possible speed), will have
no trouble competing with the installed 68020 systems.  Or a $25,000-$50,000 
RISC based workstation.

There certainly may be other reasons why a university would by a Sun or Apollo
or even Apple rather than a NeXT, but I really don't think it'll be based on
CPU speed.

> I'm not sure there is any difference between their bus and the NuBus except
> clock rate.  

It's also based on CMOS levels.

> If that's the case, the 68000 is pretty tolerant of slower than expected devices, 
> so maybe slower boards will work.  

680x0 CPUs can easily run asynchronously.  The NuBus, however, is defined as
being synchronous, with a 10MHz clock (with something like a 75/25 duty cycle).
Even considering the fast clock alone, it would amazing if any existing NuBus
board worked in this bus.  It might not be much trouble to redesign existing
NuBus boards to work in this bus, probably just change around some state machines
to take into account the faster clock rate (probably does add more states, though).

> If not, consider that IBM got away with introducing another bus, and now there 
> are cards for it.

It may not even matter.  It'll be quite some time before it makes any sense
for 3rd party groups to build NeXTBus cards.  But it may make lots of sense
for NeXT to do so, and they've at least not locked themselves into something
as slow as true NuBus.

> Dorn
> gatech.edu!fabscal!dorn

-- 
Dave Haynie  "The 32 Bit Guy"     Commodore-Amiga  "The Crew That Never Rests"
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      PLINK: D-DAVE H     BIX: hazy
		"I can't relax, 'cause I'm a Boinger!"