Xref: utzoo comp.arch:6589 alt.next:87 Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!bloom-beacon!apple!voder!pyramid!prls!mips!mash From: mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.next Subject: Re: The NeXT Problem Message-ID: <5941@winchester.mips.COM> Date: 15 Oct 88 17:25:26 GMT References: <26435@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <5498@juniper.uucp> Reply-To: mash@winchester.UUCP (John Mashey) Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Sunnyvale, CA Lines: 44 In article <5498@juniper.uucp> chari@juniper.UUCP (Christopher Michael Whatley) writes: ... >>1) Outdated Processor Technology: NeXT just missed the wave of fast RISC >> processors. The 5 MIPS 68030 is completely out performed by the currently >> available RISC chips (Motorola, MIPS, Sparc) that run at approximately >> 20 VAX (they claim) MIPS. In a year or two, ECL versions of some of these >> RISC chips will be running at 40 to 50 MIPS. > >They are supposedly developing their own RISC chip that is compatible with the >030. I don't know any more than that. I read this in a rumour column. This defies all logic. a) If it's compatible with an 030, it's not a RISC. If it's a design that makes the 68K architecture go faster (quite possible), it's still CISC, but maybe it's called a 68040. Do you think that NeXT thinks they can do that better than Moto? b) Building high-performance RISCs is harder than people thought. Even large companies with huge resources often prefer to buy rather than build. Why would a startup do this when their value-add is clearly in other areas, like user interface, software, and system integration? DON'T BELIEVE RUMOR COLUMNS THAT PRINT TRASH LIKE THIS! >(Grain-o-salt) Doesn't 20 RISC MIPS equal about 5 CISC MIPS? Depends on whose RISC MIPS and CISC MIPS they are, although that's at the edge of the distribution. I know our 20-MIPS M/2000s are 20X VAX-11/780 [i.e., spread over 15X-25X on real programs, versus VAX/VMS compilers] because I've benchmarked them. It certainly will be good to start seeing 68030s so one can benchmark them and figure out what they really are. Finally, ECL RISC chips will indeed be 40-50MIPS (or more) in next few years, but that's rather irrelevant to a NeXT discussion. I'd be amazed to see straight ECL chips in a desktop workstation, especially one aimed to be cheap. ECL chips are suitable for bigger machines, but they'r not cheap, they burn power, and they're HOT: a desktop would probably be an above-the-desktop, as it hovers on its fans. More seriously, you're much more likely to find ECL in servers than workstations. -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: UUCP: {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash OR mash@mips.com DDD: 408-991-0253 or 408-720-1700, x253 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086