Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!ncrlnk!ncrcae!hubcap!gatech!bloom-beacon!apple!vsi1!daver!athsys!jim
From: jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
Subject: Managing C++ Libraries: C++ too complex !!
Summary: My two cents regarding C++ usage
Keywords: complex,too,flames
Message-ID: <179@tityus.UUCP>
Date: 9 Nov 88 02:21:00 GMT
Organization: Athena Systems, Inc., Sunnyvale, CA
Lines: 74


***	Note that this is a combination of the two running topics...
***	and may be considered by some to be a *flame of C++*!!! BEWARE!


	I have been reading these articles with some mirth, after
having dealt with these problems at my current company for the past
year. I find it all very funny.

	C++ is an amazing language, or extension to a popular
language.  So amazing, in fact, that even the instructors teaching the
language from the source don't understand it all. The language has
been designed to "simplify the code development process" and "hide
complexity".  Our experience has been the exact opposite, as there is
so much interdependency in the class definition nesting and the
overloading and the friend functions.... et al.

	We have a fairly large commercial application written in C++,
about 800,000 lines. It is all intertwined. Please tell me the source
files that "trivially" need to be recompiled when I change one of the
include files. I have written a scanner that understands the
interdependencies at the file level, but not at the internal usage
level. We do all the normal things to minimize rereading include
files, yet some of our singular source files depend on over three
hundred (300) include files. Please tell me how this can be
simplified..  :-) :-) As I sit here typing this another person comes
to me to ask this question... "I changed one include file, what do I..."

	I don't know of much of the code that can be extracted from
it's current place and "re-used", as is so widely touted. It all
depends on itself, and is incestual in nature. I'm not saying that
it's the best use of the language, but it is a typical commercial
application as far as the development team. Not all superstars, but
trying to make it.

	If this language is so great, why do we need all these papers
from PHD level intellectuals telling us how to use it?? I believe that
there is a great deal that can be done without buying into the entire
C++ methodology, and I do it in vanilla C. My applications are
compact, easy to understand and read. They can be comprehended fairly
easily and code maintenance isn't too hard, as the program can be
understood in a couple of hours at most.

	I don't want to totally pound on C++, I think that it can be a
great base to use in creating an entirely integrated CASE development
environment (not just a toolkit mind you). There are quite a number of
possible advantages that are possible using it. Unfortunately, noone
has moved the CASE world beyond the Version Control, Configuration
Management, and Editor/Linker/Debugger toolset toward the fully
integrated "software development production world" yet (that I have
witnessed).

	The question that I pose is one of it's impact on the new
programmers out there and the question of continuing code maintenance.
Is this a language that is great for the super human programmers, and
one that becomes "write only" after a master has been at work?? Or is
it a general extension to make the language more flexible and easier
for a novice to intermediate programmer to create cleaner and more
well understood code?? How much will a new programmer have to read to
understand and modify existing code in C++?? Can an average programmer
write better code, or more confusing and obscure code?? Everyone isn't
a star coder out there.

	I've worked in over a dozen languages, and have to laugh at
the big ruckus over C++. It's certainly got it's merits, but in my book
I'll stick with the simplier and make it look better and read easier. I
don't want to hide the logic of what I am coding from the uninitiated
further down the software timeline..

	Burners back on warm!! :-)


-Jim Becker
(C programmer in a land of C++ programmers)