Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!bloom-beacon!apple!bionet!agate!ucbvax!JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU!morgan From: morgan@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk Subject: Re: PhoneNet Message-ID: Date: 6 Nov 88 02:35:09 GMT References: <16512@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 54 steve@violet.berkeley.edu (Steve Goldfield) writes: > PhoneNet is what we've got with our TOPS network. It works, but it is > slow as molasses. You can transfer files across it and share a > printer, but running applications is slow, slow, slow. If you can get > it, I'd recommend spending the extra to get an Ethernet network unless > you have no conceivable need to run applications across the network. > (I'd like to give others access to my database or to use my large hard > disk to run things like hypercard and PageMaker. It isn't practical > with PhoneNet, and I presume with Apple's cables either. Steve's PhoneNet network may be too slow for him, but it is certainly the case that a PhoneNET (or Apple LocalTalk) network can provide acceptable transfer speeds to support all kinds of file service, including complete diskless operation. I know, I've used one that way for many months. Figure it out. The raw speed of PhoneNET/LocalTalk is 230 kbits per second. Even if the effective throughput for file service, considering packet headers, acknowledgements, etc, drops to 160 kbps (and it's certainly possible to do better), that's still 20 kbytes per second. A small program like MacWrite or MacDraw could be loaded in 5 seconds, which is certainly not unacceptable. A large program like Illustrator could be loaded in 20 seconds, which isn't great, but both times still beat using floppies. In practice you'll be limited by the workstation and server transfer speeds (on a Mac+, at least), not by the network speed. For the last year I've used a floppy-only Mac+ with access via PhoneNET to a 3Com 3Server file server, which allowed me to have my 2 Mbyte System folder, 10 Mbytes of other files, and access to 20 Mbytes of shared applications. It wasn't as nice as the Ethernet-attached MacII that dropped on my desk recently, but it was infinitely better than floppies, and it was even better than having (only) my own local 20-Mbyte hard disk. And there were 8-10 other Macs on the PhoneNET and the server, too. Anybody who says PhoneNET/LocalTalk isn't fast enough to support file service for typical office applications is either a speed freak or has never worked on a properly configured PN/LT. Certainly it's possible to install them in crazy ways that will still "work" but will have terrible throughput. Too many users will do you in, too. By the way, don't even consider Apple LocalTalk. PhoneNET (or its growing number of clones) is better in every way. Apple is reportedly Farallon's biggest customer. Nuff said? (I have no connection with any of these companies other than trying to get their salespeople to take me to lunch at every opportunity.) - RL "Bob" Morgan Networking Systems Stanford