Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!watmath!isishq!doug From: doug@isishq.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Thompson) Newsgroups: comp.society.futures Subject: Revolutions and Fidonet Message-ID: <621.23788C5A@isishq.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 9 Nov 88 18:59:38 GMT Organization: International Student Information Service -- Headquarters Lines: 138 BS>From: bzs@encore.com (Barry Shein) BS>I agree with Vincent's apprehensions. BS> BS>What would probably be revolutionary would be an inexpensive home BS>computer who's forte is setting up home-brew usenet/e-mail links BS>between households. Something like an Atari/ST or PC/Klone with a BS>2400b modem and a 100MB disk with a "just pick a site name and a BS>neighbor" software set-up. It doesn't have to be fast. It could BS>probably be done for around $2000 list or less. BS>I suppose FIDOnet was an BS>attempt at that, perhaps someone from that culture could comment on BS>its current status? Whew! Yeah, I could comment on it. It exists. You want a uucp mailer in your home? You can do it for well under $2000, and you can do it today, and it's no more complex to learn than a very simple word processor (good for novices etc.) Fidonet itself may end up as a footnote in history, but out of fidonet has come the software to do this on a very plain-jane PC clone. I start salivating when I think of what a Sun or a NeXT or a turbo 386 could do with this idea. Hardware capability is going up and prices are coming down. Things can only get better. This message is entered on a PC, a PC called "isishq" in Usenet and "221/162" in Fidonet, that serves as a hub for an international network of student newspapers (low budget agencies with no computer savvy for the most part). Transcontinental phone costs being what they are, we went with trailblazers instead of 2400. If you think uucp is fast on a TB, you should see fidonet mail protocols! It puts FAST into a CONNECT FAST! Basically, 2400 is too slow for heavy-duty long-distance bulk transfers, and uucp -g is too inefficient. And yes, this is highly revolutionary I think. Fidonet is suffering from the revolution, and provides an incredible case study . . . but moves are afoot to convert addressing to the internet standard and develop gateways in all directions. In Fidonet (somewhat like usenet) ownership of resources is dispersed, and net-wide decisions require a consensus among all those involved. Such a consensus is hard to achieve. What tends to happen is that net standards emerge as a result of someone writing software which everyone else starts using. Along the way there is an awful lot of argument and disputation. Like any large group of people, unanimity does not exist and a number of very different points of view compete with each other. Fidonet now involves 4,000 listed nodes, almot all MS-DOS systems, and several times that many "points" (unlisted, private nodes). Many are public access BBS systems with socres or hundreds of users. The nodelist doubles in size every 12 months. A few dozen of these are also uucp sites and run uucp protocol g under MS-DOS. With my set-up the software that answers the phone detects whether it is a uucp poll, a fidonet poll, or a human calling, and loads the appropriate software to conduct the session. Feel free to call (519-747-1965) and browse, you'll get some sense of what is happening. Historically, it took a real "hacker" to get a fidonet system up and running and required a lot of skill to link it all to uucp. But now there are new programs which enable novices to conduct a meaningful mail and news existence. BS> Centralized service machines could then be built around this. That is exactly what we are doing. Some listed nodes are servicing hundreds of point systems. The structure is in the very early stages of development, but a public-owned, cheap e-mail system is emerging. BS>The important distinction from services like BS>CompuServe is that a significant amount of the computing would go on BS>in the households. Right. The economies of using fully automated (uucp or FTSC) mail connections instead of manual log-on are phenomenal! I've been costing this out just today, and you get savings ranging from modest in some circumstances to factors of several hundred in others. One of the main savings is that the "host" can serve 300 automated "mailer" points with the same hardware and system load required to serve 20 people logging on manually. Overseas, the cost savings in phone bills are very substantial. The marginal cost of sending the average message from Canada to Australia is about 4 cents. Within North America it is a fraction of a cent (in a well organized system). BS> BS>What do other people think would be revolutionary in a personal BS>computer? BS> The auto became revolutionary with Henry Ford, not because his car was anything so amazing, but because its price tag was. When they become a mass phenonemon, they will have revolutionary impact. It's already happening now with computers. You want a uucp site on your home computer? Gimme a call, I'll send you the software :-). Don't expect the sophistication of Framework III, this is home-grown amatuer code in large part (especially the stuff I wrote) but like the Model T, it works, and heck, the price is right! But seriously, I've written a series of programs which will install themselves on your home computer and set you up as a "leaf node" or point off my system. This gives you mail and news capabilities with a few limitations. The software is beta test and draws heavily on a lot of existing shareware fidonet and DOSuucp software. But it does work, it is very simple and convenient. There is a lot of room for improvement, and in time it will be improved, as the Model T was improved. Of course it can be configured to connect to *any* FTSC capable mail host and I could bend it to do uucp directly if I put my mind to it. Right now the uucp part is handled at the host, and is fairly complex. If I spent more time cobbling code and less time indulging my addiction in net-news it would probably be better and I'd probably be richer. But then if it weren't for the net-news addiction I'd have never thought of this :-). I wrote this software for my *mother* so I could exchange e-mail with her. She gets intimidated by electric typewriters and manual transmissions, but it's simple enough for her to use. It would not have been possible without the code generated by hundreds of FidoNet developers, at least not for another five years. =Doug -- Doug Thompson - via FidoNet node 1:221/162 UUCP: ...!watmath!isishq!doug Internet: doug@isishq.FIDONET.ORG