Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!ncrlnk!ncrcae!hubcap!gatech!rutgers!apple!vsi1!ames!oliveb!stratus!gbs
From: gbs@stratus.UUCP (George B. Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.nsc.32k
Subject: Re: 32K "do-it-yourself" kits...
Keywords: The Ultimate Scrooge...
Message-ID: <1037@stratus.UUCP>
Date: 5 Nov 88 06:42:32 GMT
References: <2613@sultra.UUCP>
Reply-To: gbs@stratus.UUCP (George B. Smith)
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc. Western Development Center
Lines: 61

In article <2613@sultra.UUCP> dtynan@sultra.UUCP (Der Tynan) writes:
>OK, so I've been following all these postings about so-and-so who makes an
>"ultra-cheap" 32K experimental system....
>...So, I figure the best way to
>get a 'quick-and-dirty' 32K system, is if someone out there (read National)
>has a simple system, for which they're willing to sell just the bare PC
>board.

I think there is something that you should understand about National.
I am not saying the following is good or bad, it's just the way it is.
National is not interested in supplying low cost solutions for customers
that are only going to buy *one* chip set.  They have geared their whole
32k organization to look for, cater to, communicate with, ship to, etc,
etc, very large companies.  They can deal very well with another large
company but don't do well at all with an individual.  Once you realize
this inherent characteristic of National a lot of their actions make
more sense (not good sense, just more sense :-)).

>I mean, when you take manufacturing costs out of the equation, it
>should be possible to produce a simple 6MHz, 512K RAM PC board, with a UART
>and space for the TDS PROM's for less than $100.

In large quantities, you are right, it can be done, minus RAM costs which
are variable right now.  The point is, National doesn't think they would
sell very many of them.  And I really want to emphasize that this is their
perception.  Whether they would sell a million or not is not the point.
They don't think they will so they won't do it.  As an aside, you can
forget the TDS PROM's.  As one who has been inside the TDS code, you
would do well to erase any PROM which has TDS in it (sorry Rich :-)).
TDS, which stands for the Tiny Developement System, is the largest piece
of 32k code which can stand as the best example of how *not* to write
assembly code for the 32k.  Also, it accepts only a subset of the old NSX
format assembly language, the editor is *very* limited, the assembler is
unexplainably slow, on and on.  The engineer who last worked on TDS for
the 532 designer kit was driven up the wall trying to work with the
code.  They said on *many* occasions that it would have been better to
start from scratch than to use TDS but they had to follow orders.

>In reality, it would be nice to find something to plug into my IBM-PC (make
>it into a *real* system), which didn't cost $800.00 (and that's the DISCOUNT
>price!).

I'm afraid that a 6 MHz 016 can not really be used as the basis for 
"a *real* system" at this date and time.  Also, there are no really cheap
ways to get into the 32k world.  Believe me I have looked high and low
since I believed that someone if not National should offer such a solution.
I must confess that I found no satisfactory answers.  The Ziaz offer 
recently posted seemed as good as I have seen altho I have no direct
experience with them.  I have talked to people who I respect that said
they were a good outfit, tho.

>...get away from that disgusting Intel architecture in one fell swoop.

Now this sentiment I can understand and agree with entirely :-).

>dtynan@sultra.UUCP		(Der Tynan @ Tynan Computers)

George B. Smith               disclaimer:  these opinions are mine
(used to be gbs@nsc)                       and mine alone.
Stratus Computer, Inc
gbs@stratus