Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!seismo!sundc!pitstop!sun!oliveb!stratus!gbs
From: gbs@stratus.UUCP (George B. Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.nsc.32k
Subject: Re: 32K "do-it-yourself" kits...
Keywords: The Ultimate Scrooge...
Message-ID: <1055@stratus.UUCP>
Date: 9 Nov 88 06:12:55 GMT
References: <2613@sultra.UUCP> <7532@nsc.nsc.com> <1039@stratus.UUCP> <1669@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU>
Reply-To: gbs@stratus.UUCP (George B. Smith)
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc. Western Development Center
Lines: 84

In article <1669@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU> night@pawl17.pawl.rpi.edu (Trip Martin) writes:
>In article <1039@stratus.UUCP> gbs@stratus.UUCP (George B. Smith) writes:
>>I suggest that the 532DK, otherwise known as the 532 Designer Kit, would *not*
>>be an appropriate starting point for a system.
>
>It depends on the individual.  For a computer engineering student like
>me, it's a great deal.  For less than the cost of a cheap PC clone, I
>get a '532 (probably cheaper than if I bought the '532 by itself, 
>although I haven't been able to get prices yet), plus the additional
>hardware to get a system up pretty quickly.

For a fairly complete, take it home and plug it in, *XT PC Clone*, I have
seen many machines in the *under* $500 range.  The 532DK will require the
$532 532DK, a terminal, a serial cable, a power supply, and a power cable
to have a running system.  Quite a bit *more* than a cheap PC clone and
you will need a host system to do any serious work with the 532DK.

>I can also learn from it
>as an example of a high-speed system, even if it isn't necessarily
>production quality.

You see, that is the problem.  The 532DK is *not* a system!  Let me state
I am not a hardware person but I can tell you that the 532DK will *not*
show you how to interface to a *real* memory system.  For a system with
the 532, memory would consist of a large array of dynamic RAM with a
cache between the 532 and memory.  The 532DK has a very simple, small
static RAM configuration.  The 532DK will not show you how to interface
to a mass storage system, will not show you how to interface to a graphics
system, will not show you how to interface to an ethernet, or to any kind
of bus.  It will show you how to interface to a serial port though.  What
I am trying to say is that I don't think you are not getting what you are
looking for.

>As for software, Gnu supports the 32000 series.  Besides, I don't think
>it would be too difficult to write a simple assembler for experimenting
>with the 32532.

I think it is widely agreed that to run any GNU software from the Free
Software Foundation requires a 32-bit UNIX system with substantial disk
space.  Read this as expensive.  As for an assembler, there is a "simple"
public domain 32k assembler written in C which runs on DOS available
from Rick Rodman of the NS32 User Group.  It is an improved version of
the one that appeared in Dr. Dobb's Journal a couple of years ago.  Note
that it has a non-standard syntax (i.e. not compatible with either the
current National software tools, GNX R3, or the assembler in the TDS
ROMs which come with the 532DK), produces only Intel hex files, and
does not support the 532 (unless he has upgraded it in the last two
months).

>I would say your comments apply to companies thinking of using the '532,
>but there are quite a few people who could get a lot of of the 532DK.

I remain unconvinced.  Now the cg16 PC could change my mind.

>>National does not want to cater to the low cost , low volume market.
>
>I don't blame National for not catering to the low-cost, low-volume
>market, since by definition, there is little profit to be gained by it.
>If you were National, would you want to spend lots of resources on
>a minimal profit-margin market?

I was National, at least part of it, for a long while.  I *did* want
to participate in this market.  It doesn't show a profit on this quarters
bottom line like the MBA's would like to see, but what about the
future?  How do you cultivate all the *future* and potentially profitable
users that could turn into something big someday?  What about the
"poor, struggling, resource-poor but intelligent, hard working and
energetic students" like yourself?  What about the 2 to 5 man gargage
shops that pop up all over the place in Silicon Valley?  What about
the technically sophisticated experimenters who are avid followers of
experts like Steve Ciarcia from BYTE magazine?  All these people are
the engineers of large companies of the future who might well be
specifying 32k's *if* they get some consideration *now*.  And I don't
think it would take a "lot of resources" to do this.  In many instances
that I observed, it would simply mean not excluding them by arbitrary
policies.

>Trip Martin
>night@pawl.rpi.edu
>userffs7@rpitsmts.bitnet

George B. Smith			disclaimer: this is fun
Stratus Computer, Inc
gbs@stratus