Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!mailrus!ames!vsi1!daver!athsys!jim From: jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++ Subject: Re: Managing C++ Libraries: C++ too complex !! Message-ID: <187@tityus.UUCP> Date: 15 Nov 88 02:04:35 GMT References: <5278@thorin.cs.unc.edu> Organization: Athena Systems, Inc., Sunnyvale, CA Lines: 100 From article <5278@thorin.cs.unc.edu>, by coggins@piglet.cs.unc.edu (Dr. James Coggins): > > Aha! now I see where we differ. > I think you are associating "intelligence of the user" with > "ability to use a crummy user interface", which is a serious > error. The Mac has a unified interface based on a simple > and pervasive metaphor. This beautiful design is what makes it so > easy to learn, not the intelligence or lack thereof in the user > community. Even Ph.D.s (especially Ph.D.'s?) find the Mac easier to > use than the PC. Being able to use a PC does not indicate superior > intelligence, but it might indicate motivation, hard work, time on > your hands, ... . > > The problem is not in ourselves, but in our software user interfaces. > This is true. It is also part of the evolution that is occurring with the "Information Age". There is an increasing amount of material that needs to be digested if one is going to "keep up" with the world. This needs to be presented to the user in as familiar and understandable a format as possible. This is where the Mac has taken the big leap, everything that one uses is familiar in the nature of the interface. After getting used to the Mac, it becomes much more difficult for the busy user to take the time and effort required with products that are "A Maze of Twisty Different Passages, All Different". Since I have become accustomed to the nature of Mac programs, I have raised my standards as far as the nature of programs that I am willing to learn. If they consume too much of my time getting started they are demoted in usage against easier to use products. These demoted products may actually be much better as far as functionality, but "time" is becoming one of my most precious resources. The easy of use has come to the end user in the form of Mac type interfaces, the question is the ease of programming for that ease of use. I believe that products like HyperCard and Fourth (4th) Dimension are the first steps toward this next generation of computer usage. C++ could move this way, but there are steps outlined that need to be taken before it happens. > The point that I was trying to make is that some people may be > able to pickup and understand the C++ language easily, but most > average programmers will not. > > I can agree that learning to use C++ effectively is challenging right > now, but this is not the fault of the language and not an indication of > a C++ Programmer Master Race. The problem is that we lack educational > materials right now. [clipped] Again we are in agreement. The wrench that I would like to throw into the works is the changes that are taking place around us. There are less students that are going into technical and degreed work. Technology changes so fast that even those coming out of school become out of date quickly. Job functions and titles are continuing to evolve and shift at an increasingly faster rate of speed. Businesses are finding that they have problems even fitting people to positions that are fairly typical in the job market, basically because there is a lessening of skills and literacy in the marketplace. This is due to immigration and shifts in schooling (no flames, read anything about this). Businesses have to train workers in basic algebra and language skills, so what about more complex things -- like computers! The direction that has been taken in much of the business community is to "de-skill" the jobs that they have. Using non-language pictures and visuals rather than words and sentences. About a year ago I went to a presentation of an interactive videodisc setup that was used to train welders how to weld. Going into the project, the creator had one basic credo that the customer needed -- that there were no written words. This is because there would be lots of people of differing language and literacy background that would not be able to understand words. Hence it was all pictures. Extracting this situation to the discussion at hand. It would be wonderful if we had the educational materials and the effort and money and energy to do this. We just elected an "education president", eh?? I would like to see this happen more than you can believe, as I think that it is the best road back to making America what it was when I was growing up. But, after trying to do educational efforts in software with my own company, I don't hold my breath waiting for the government or politicians or anyone else to do something about education. Here in California we are spending more money than ever on education, but the average kid sure isn't the Einstein you would expect. Therefore, until the time when we create new kids that are really bright, part of the solution may be to make the tools that are used in all forms of development more easily understandable to "average" level users. Hence my argument toward making higher level toolkits for users. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr. James M. Coggins coggins@cs.unc.edu > Computer Science Department > UNC-Chapel Hill Not a member of the putative > Chapel Hill, NC 27514-3175 C++ Master Race. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- -Jim Becker [attach your own name..]