Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!mit-eddie!apollo!burati
From: burati@apollo.COM (Michael R. Burati)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: SR10 doesn't have /lib/gmrlib ... ???
Message-ID: <3fb4f835.7c9c@apollo.COM>
Date: 16 Nov 88 21:27:00 GMT
References: <8811110007.AA07839@richter.mit.edu>
Reply-To: burati@apollo.COM (Mike Burati)
Organization: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford, MA
Lines: 92


  Dave, Scott, Dennis and Scott (hope I didn't leave anybody out :-)

This is NOT a flame.  I'm not saying WE're right or you're wrong, I just
want to clarify some facts before even more people forget
what they read in Usenet Etiquette, and start flaming without checking the
facts first.  Some of the flames may be justified, but a lot of them are
from people that don't even have the software yet.  The rumors kept building
on each other...

Following are some followup answers to some complaints.  At the bottom of this
message is the summary of what's happening with Apollo graphics products.

 > Well, I don't know where to start ... we can't run the
 > diagnostics anymore -- we have to wait for the repairman
 > to come down here and run them and *then* figure out
 > that he doesn't have the correct board; many of the more

Not necessarily.  There is now a password on DEX, that part is true.
The license to use DEX is your customer service contract.  I believe that
what you have to do to get the password is call your local office, they
should verify that you have a service contract, then give you the password
to use DEX.  I'll get a more precise answer to that as soon as I can.

 >I just got my SR10 distribution, but haven't bothered to unpack it yet
 >as I am not up to dealing with a whole new set of bugs ... and now
 >you tell me that I can't run (much less develop) my GMR based software
 >on SR10 unless I go out and buy a GMR license?

This is not true.  The GMR2D license is included, but not the actual software
(see the description below)

 >As has been already pointed out, why would I buy a graphics workstation
 >that doesn't have graphics software? Do I need to buy GPR, too, or is 
 >that still bundled with the OS?
   >       Charging extra for GMR 2D, and 3D have been bad enough, but
   >       now GPR?
    > the gprlib has to be there, of course, but are the /sys/ins files
    > available which allow us users to use the gprlib?

As Dave Gorgen and Leonard Zubkoff already mentioned, GPR is bundled
(RUNTIME AND DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENTS) and should always be that way.

 > software which used to be bundled with the graphics 
 > hardware -- and it's not cheap! 2-D GMR is $1000 per
 > workstation ...

According to the price list the license is bundled with each system
and you pay for the media and documentation ($100).  I believe the
other media types are even less. (see explanation below)
 
 > ... Sun seems to understand that a lot of Universities buy
 > machines 1 or 2 at a time and they market them to us in that
 > manner, while Apollo keeps coming in and telling us what a
 > deal they'll give us on a DN10000 if we buy 30 midrange machines.

Buying 30 DN3500's and receiving a DN10000 FREE!!! sounds like a
good deal to me (and I'm not in Sales).  It's a good deal for universities
that are putting together a lab of workstations, but if you only want to buy
one system, then go ahead.

  > inability to use object oriented file system info
  > without making system-dependent OS calls.

Maybe I don't understand the question, and if so feel free to tell (not flame) me.
It looks like you're asking for system indepent (ie: standard UNIX) OS calls to get
non-standard (ie: info not available in UNIX) information from the file system.
This does not make a lot of sense to me.  How do you expect a file system call, that
doesn't understand typed-files/with stream managers, to return this information?


GRAPHICS PRODUCTS
=================
The RUNTIME LICENSES (right to use) are bundled with each system for each of the
following GRAPHICS PRODUCTS:  GPR, GSR, GMR2D, GMR3D, PHIGS

RUNTIME and DEVELOPMENT software is included in the OS for GPR

The RUNTIME software for GSR, GMR2D, GMR3D and PHIGS is not included on the OS
tapes.  You already have the license for them, so you just have to order the
media and documentation for the product you need (ie: $100 for a GMR2D cartridge
tape and manual).

..Mike
=================================
Michael Burati
Tech Consultant
Technical Marketing (no jokes about the contradiction)
Apollo Computer Inc.
burati@apollo.com

My opinions wouldn't necessarily be supported by any sane person...