Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!ogccse!blake!uw-beaver!cornell!mailrus!cwjcc!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu!nmg From: nmg@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Nancy M Gould) Newsgroups: news.misc Subject: Re: RACIST JOKES Message-ID: <1077@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> Date: 18 Nov 88 21:25:08 GMT References: <8030@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> <1058@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1060@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1057@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1223@fig.bbn.com> Reply-To: nmg@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu.UUCP (Nancy M Gould) Organization: Mathematical Sciences Computer Lab, Columbus, OH Lines: 110 In article <1223@fig.bbn.com> rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes: >This article is a mish-mash of the four separate ariticles mentioned >in the References line. > >From: nmg@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Nancy M Gould) >>If enough people from ANY ETHNIC GROUP feel offended, the jokes >>should not be posted. >And if the person doesn't stop, then the majority should force them? >Sorry, you're wrong. Read the First Amendment of the US Constitution. >Usenet is a world-wide (dis)organization, so it doesn't apply to >everyone, but I expect that the vast majority of Usenet readers >agree with its basic intent: > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, > or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of > speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to > assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. No, they should not be forced. They should stop in the name of common politeness and consideration for other people's feelings. Freedom of speech is not the issue here. No one is questioning Brad Templeton's legal right to post anything he likes. Nobody's going to court, nobody's on trial here. We are just asking him to stop in the name of politeness and consideration. > >>I don't think any joke that offends a significant amount of people and >>brings back horrifying memories and associations from their past >>is very "funny". > That is your decision. Other people do find humor in it. How unfortunate. It doesn't say very much for the values of other people. >Your viewpoint on what is funny has not been shown to be more valid >than mine. By looking at the readership statistics, I can claim that >Brad's viewpoint on what is funny IS more valid then yours and mine >put together. In 1933 a significant amount of German's found such humor to be funny also. Who cares about what the majority of net readers think! Whatever happened to the rights of minorities! > >Jonathon Richmond >>To briefly answer all your other points, I believe that no >>humor which belittles any person as a result of their race or >>ethnicity is acceptable. >Suppose that I find such humor totally acceptable. (This is a supposition, >not necessarily an actual statement of belief.) Why is your viewpoint >more valid than mine? Because Jonathon's viewpoint represents a commonly accepted moral principle--one that is accepted by virtually every religion (Christianity as well as Judaism), secular humanists, and even some atheists and agnostics. The principle I refer to is that of consideration for other people's feelings. For example, most people, regardless of their ethnic nationality or religious beliefs would consider it extremely rude and thoughtless to make jokes about fat people in the presence of a fat person. Nobody is questioning their right to freedom of speech. It's just a matter of politeness and consideration. > >I also do not understand why race an ethnicity is a valid criteria, and >(say) physical deformity or occupation isn't. Can you elaborate why you >feel that it is okay to make fun of lepers or programmers, but not >ethnics? > Excuse me, but who ever said it is okay to make fun of lepers, etc.? First people get upset with me because they think I am automatically considering only Jews. Now that I've made it clear that the principle applies to ALL ETHNIC GROUPS, people make the accusation that I don't care about lepers and programmers. Okay, let me spell it out for you, REEAAAAALLLLLLL SSSSSSSLLLLLLLLOOOOWWWW... If enough people from ANY CATEGORY have reason to feellthat they are being discriminated against (and history shows that their fears are not totally unfounded), consideration and respect should be given to their feelings. IN THE NAME OF COMMON POLITENESS, PLEASE STOP!!! -- "When the writer becomes the center of his attention, he becomes a nudnik. And a nudnik who believes he's profound is even worse than just a plain nudnik." --Isaac Bashevis Singer (1904- ) Nancy M. Gould