Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!ames!pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!tse From: tse@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Tse) Newsgroups: news.misc Subject: Re: RACIST JOKES Message-ID: <7664@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 22 Nov 88 05:03:41 GMT References: <8030@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> <1058@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1060@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1057@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1223@fig.bbn.com> <666@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov> <8052@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> <560@redsox.UUCP> <977@lzfme.att.com> Sender: news@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU Reply-To: tse@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Gary Tse) Organization: Diplomas'R Us Lines: 74 In article <977@lzfme.att.com> brs@lzfme.UUCP (xmrj5-B.SCHWARTZ) writes: >Do not be deceived by the numbers. Some of us who are deeply >offended have kept silent, because we have been taught that as a >minority our voice will not be heard unless the majority wants it to >be heard. The rights of the minority, apparently do not count. We are not omniscient, and it is not unreasonable that we cannot consider every concern. If you do not speak up, then how do you expect the rest of us to recognize and consider your viewpoint? But since you have spoken up, your ideas will be examined just like everyone else's. I certainly do not want to be discriminatory by coddling you. > >The white, christian, male support that Brad gets makes >him feel justified. The if you don't like it, leave it attitude >(Don't subscribe if you are offended) does not address the issue. I originally prepared a very sarcastic reply to this statement. But we are discussing a very serious matter here, and my (attempted) humor might distract attention from the discussion. So I will not use that passage here. Just let me assure you that I am neither white nor christian. I am a male though, and I suppose Betsy Schwartz would want me to apologize and feel guilty for that. I am sorry, Betsy, but I will never do such things. /* Flame on */ Why is this racist and sexist complaining about the rest of us? Betsy Schwartz is as much a racist and sexist as anyone I have met. What? Don't believe what I claimed? Look, in essence she says: "All male has horrible character flaw." This is of course a racist statement. That the happens to be white does nothing to vindicate the incorrect (and very sloppy) thinking behind the statement. /* flame off */ While I have the floor here, let me explain something else. It may seem contradictory that I am against both Jonathan Richmond's effort to "clean up" rec.humor.funny and Betsy Schwartz's racism. So let me clarify my position. Fundamentally, I see nothing wrong with discussing (and hopefully determining) the correctness of posting racial jokes on rec.humor.funny . I have no complaint against Mr. Richmond on that. What I am against is Mr. Richmond's threatened censorship of Brad Templeton (despite Jonathan Richmond's protestations, his veiled threat of "affirmative action" (his quotes, not mine) still smacks of censorship). And I have not (and will never) attempt to censor Betsy Schwartz (through vague threats against her employers/family/dog :). So there is no inconsistency in my stance. > >I'm sure that racism and sexism can be justified by the majority, >since they are not affected, but does that make it right. This is yet another example of sloppy thinking. Betsy is stuck in a mode where she claims: "X is not wrong, because I do not suffer from X." But most of us can recognize a wrong even if we do not suffer from its consequences. Can't you, Betsy? >-- > --Betsy R. Schwartz --aka-- Kinyan Cattery------------------------- > (201) 576-3632 work Ruddy and Red Abyssinians > (201) 321-0130 home Home of Ch. Yavapai Isis of Kinyan > att!lzfme!brs & Kinyan's Ramsette & some people too! ----- Gary Tse, tse@cory.berkeley.edu or ..!ucbvax!cory!tse Tse's Fifth Law of Clean Living: hours of sleep + cans of Coca-Cola = constant