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From: mcglk@blake.acs.washington.edu (Ken McGlothlen)
Newsgroups: news.misc,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Racist jokes
Message-ID: <262@blake.acs.washington.edu>
Date: 24 Nov 88 02:04:29 GMT
References: <8030@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> <1058@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1223@fig.bbn.com> <179@loci.UUCP> <2361@looking.UUCP> <251@blake.acs.washington.edu> <423@mccc.UUCP> <17379@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> <670@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov> <260@blake.acs.washington.edu> <672@fc
Reply-To: mcglk@blake.acs.washington.edu (Ken McGlothlen)
Organization: Me?  Organized?
Lines: 58

In article <672@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov> shore@ncifcrf.gov (Melinda Shore) writes:
+----------
| In article <260@blake...> [I write]:
| +----------
| | [... a joking reference to a prior posting of Melinda's, and a
| |  reference to the extent that racism isn't funny, but ethnic jokes
| |  can be (and frequently are) ...]
| +----------
| 
| [...]
| 
| I'm not suggesting that anybody is suggesting that racism is funny
| (although I know people who think it is).  I'm asking if anyone thinks
| that racism is okay when couched in humorous terms.
| 
| [...anecdote about jokes told in a racist manner...]
| 
| [...anecdote about ethnic jokes told by ethnic families...]
| There was a considerable difference in tone and
| content between these jokes and the jokes I heard back home.  Yes,
| ethnic humor can be funny, but that does not mean that it isn't used as
| a weapon as well.  Some of what I've seen in rec.humor.funny has been
| extremely vicious, and I don't think it's appropriate for Brad to put
| his stamp of approval on it and post it to the net.  Du bis nit a
| mensch, Brad.  Do the right thing.  Racism is not acceptable, period.
| -- 
| Melinda Shore                                    shore@ncifcrf.gov
| NCI Supercomputer Facility              ..!uunet!ncifcrf.gov!shore
+----------

You raise a good point (one of the few good ones I've heard yet on this
discussion).  They can be told two different ways, in most cases.  There
are some really gross jokes of this sort, and other, more gentle ones.

But where do you draw the line?  There seems like a huge grey area here.
I saw nothing wrong about the Scot/Jew joke.  There *have* been others
that I've winced at--but sometimes, humor *is* uncomfortable.

Jokes of this sort *can* be used as a weapon, but I don't think Brad
is--and I don't think most of the people on USENET are.  There are some
who undoubtedly would, I'm sure--but posting jokes of that sort isn't
going to change things at all.  The idiot bigots will remain, sadly,
idiot bigots.  Those that know better won't be persuaded otherwise.

I'm pretty sure that Brad weeds out enough really gross jokes as it is,
right Brad?  :)

So, for the meantime, leave Brad be.  He's doing a good job.

One other thing I should say.  It seems to be that publishing a book
at nearly break-even costs, and advertising it on the net, isn't a
bad thing.  He *could* have reposted those jokes as a uuencoded ARCed
binary file, I guess--would that have been better?  :)  ("This will
cost the net zillions if not googleplexes of dollars to send to everyone
on the planet--are you *sure* you're stupid enough to do this?")

				--Ken McGlothlen
				  mcglk@blake.acs.washington.edu