Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!helios.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!ucsd!nprdc!bickel
From: bickel@nprdc.arpa (Steven Bickel)
Newsgroups: comp.ai
Subject: Re: Thought/Emotion/Feeling
Message-ID: <1169@arctic.nprdc.arpa>
Date: 13 Dec 88 21:00:56 GMT
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Reply-To: bickel@nprdc.arpa (Steven Bickel)
Organization: Navy Personnel R&D Center, San Diego
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In article <854@quintus.UUCP> ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes:
>In article <1159@arctic.nprdc.arpa> bickel@nprdc.arpa (Steven Bickel) writes:
>> Language has been evolving for a very long
>> time. The physical brain structures that we seem to need for higher level
>> language communication appear to have evolved as long as 200,000 years ago
>> and this time period is widely debated.  The key to understanding my 
>> concept is that the function and structure of communication,
>> and cognitive processing changed dramatically in a relatively short period.
>> This evolutionary concept does not necessarily coincide with dramatic
>> physical changes in the brain structure.
>
>Myself, I would be reluctant to conclude much from an endocranial cast.
>If there is any more direct evidence available about what the "physical brain
>structures" (are there non-physical brains?) were 200,000 years ago, it would
>be *extremely* interesting to hear about it.  (What a pity Broca didn't live
>back then.  If he had, he might have left us some preserved brains.)

   By physical brain structures I was trying to differentiate the difference
   between function and structure ( mind -vs- brain ).

>It is certainly possible that "the .. structure of communication ...
>changed dramatically in a relatively short period".  As a whole-hearted
>believer in Punctuated Equilibrium, I would expect as much (at any rate,
>of changes near a speciation event).  BUT WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

  The evidence is entirely anthropological speculation based upon
  the chronology of artifacts that also fit into everyone (?) elses
  theories.  Within the chronology of the artifacts there appear to
  be determinable (I can hear you laughing now :-)) cognitive functional 
  capacities within specific periods, localized to specific cultures and 
  generalized across many.

>How can we know that "cognitive processing changed dramatically in a" period
>unless we know what it was like both before and after the period?
>We still don't know whether human language is based on a novel facility
>(as Chomsky claims) or whether it is solely a function of general
>cognitive facilities (as Lakoff and others claim).  So we don't even know
>what *this* end of the interval is!  As for knowing how people 200,000 
>years ago thought and communicated, I really would love to know how that
>was discovered.  (Did someone ask Ramtha, maybe? :-)

   I would suggest you read Wilber's Up From Eden and try to wade through
   the Zen like philosophies and you might appreciate his work as myself and 
   many others have: An elegant combination of Piaget's developmental stages, 
   Freud's id-ego-Superego, and the historical development of the human psyche 
   (Eastern and Western approaches)(read ch 5 first for information pertaining
   directly to this discussion). We can only speculate 
   from anthropological bits and pieces and If I have sounded confident in my 
   understanding of what life was like 10,000 years ago it was primarily to 
   direct attention to what appear to me to be the best parts and pieces of
   the theories I am aware of.
   Incidentally this book was recommended to me by a member of
   the National Committee for the Advancement of Self Esteem (some title like
   that).  The purpose of this committee is to help in the development of 
   policies/programs/guidelines that encourage societal growth.

   I have not read much on this subject for a few years, but, If you could
   suggest something you like I would be interested. :-)

Steve Bickel