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From: cik@l.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,sci.math,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Student and Course Integrity  (was Rising cost of textbooks)
Summary: There are so few Americans, and they are getting more scarce.
Message-ID: <1060@l.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 10 Dec 88 13:27:09 GMT
References: <1131@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1887@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> <18121@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Lines: 60

In article <18121@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>, matloff@bizet.Berkeley.EDU (Norman Matloff) writes:
> In article <18107@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> c60a-2di@e260-4b.berkeley.edu (The Cybermat Rider) writes:
> 
> >There have been rumors (note that - RUMORS!!!) circulating amongst
> >Singaporean students that some American universities plan to impose quota
> >restrictions against foreign students.  If this is true (I hope FOR ALL OUR
> >SAKES it isn't), 

Unfortunately, a few are doing this.  In some cases, this is done in such a
way that the large numbers of American students in those fields which do not
have many foreign applicants (such as education) can be used to balance the
totals.  In other areas, there are large numbers of American students intersted
in terminal Master's degrees, and they can be counted.  For example, at Purdue
we have a dead-end Applied Master's degree in statistics; the only foreign
students we support in this program are those who fail in the Ph.D. program.
About 1/3 of our students are American students in this program.  Another 
example is Computer Science, where I have been told by some of our faculty
that most Ph.D. students are foreign, but there is a large number of American
students wanting an M.S.

> Adrian, UC already has such restrictions.  NOW NOTE CAREFULLY THAT WE
> ARE TALKING ABOUT ***FOREIGN*** STUDENTS, NOT NON-WHITE AMERICANS.
> 
> Here at UC Davis, there is a restriction of 25% for FOREIGN engineering
> students, though the administration lets this slide to about 35%.  There
> is a similar restriction at UCB; I don't know the numerics of it, but I
> do know that they have been giving heavy preference to domestic students
> in the last 2 years.

Since WWII, most of the strong Ph.D. programs in statistics have been dominated
by foreign student.  This has not been the situation in mathematics until
recently, but the proportion of American Ph.D.s in mathematics from American
universities has dropped from 80% ten years ago to 50%.  In mathematics, Purdue
is ranked in the top 25 institutions.  The recent admissions to the Ph.D. 
program are about 85% foreign.  The American students do not exist.  It is
not necessary to use quotas to protect the American students.  I believe that
the Ph.D. programs in engineering are more than half foreign.  The only thing
that quotas can do is to require the wasting of money on weak students who will
flunk out anyhow.

> Again, this is for FOREIGN students.  It does NOT apply to U.S. citizens
> or permanent residents.  Even someone with a newly minted green card is
> classified as domestic.  Any brand-new immigrant, whether from Hong Kong,
> China, Taiwan, Singapore or wherever, is classified as domestic, and does
> not get subjected to the above quotas.
> 
> UC is a state institution.  The legislature held hearings about 3 years
> ago, and felt that the proportion of foreign students was too high for
> an institution supported by tax monies.  I felt this was shortsighted
> (I even called the Legislative Analyst about it), because almost all
> the foreign engineering students get hired by U.S. companies and become
> (taxpaying Americans), but I think the legislature does have a point.
> 
>    Norm


-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@l.cc.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet, UUCP)