Xref: utzoo comp.edu:1528 sci.math:5079 sci.physics:5119 Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!seismo!sundc!pitstop!sun!decwrl!labrea!agate!helios.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!humu!uhccux!lady From: lady@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Lee Lady) Newsgroups: comp.edu,sci.math,sci.physics Subject: Re: Student and Course Integrity Summary: It used to be we made everybody take Latin, now ... Keywords: responsibility, victim, complaining, environmental variables, education as fascism, professors != missionaries Message-ID: <2799@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> Date: 10 Dec 88 21:51:14 GMT References: <1131@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1887@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> <4526@homxc.UUCP> Reply-To: lady@uhccux.UUCP (Lee Lady) Followup-To: sci.math, alt.flame Distribution: na Organization: University of Hawaii (Mathematics Dept) Lines: 106 In article <4526@homxc.UUCP> bgt@homxc.UUCP (B.TONGUE) writes: >In article <1887@sun.soe.clarkson.edu>, jk0@clutx.clarkson.edu (Jason Coughlin,221 Rey,,) writes: >> >> So what's really >> happening here? Are all the professors wrong? Do the professors expect too >> much of us today? Or is it really the students? And if it IS the students, >> what's happened? Is it a loss of motivation (, and just what are we >> motivated to do these days)? I think this is a VERY important issue which >> needs to be addressed, and maybe solved? > >I was of the opinion then, and I am still of the opinion now, that the >majority of students in the general sciences courses are for the most >part just plain apathetic. Many students approach mathematics as a >subject to be passed and buried as quickly as possible; [deleted material] > This is wrong, for I've discovered that it wasn't the >formulas I memorized which helped me in my career today, but instead >the patterns of logical deduction upon which mathematics is >built. But is that aspect emphasized to the students? > >This brings up another question. *Should* it be emphasized? >If a student lacks motivation to learn for the sheer joy of education, >why should professors extend themselves pointlessly? > >This is a double-edged sword. The potential is there, but it >cannot be solely the professor's duty to offer support - students >must be receptive as well. > >There has to be a time when a student takes responsibility for >their own education; they have to give as much as does the >professor. But how can that be communicated? Complaining about students is a favorite pastime for faculty. Just as students like to complain about professors, businessmen like to complain about employees, and farmers complain about the weather. There's a certain comfort in fruitless complaining about the environmental variables in one's life, in playing the victim. "How can I do a good job when this is the material I'm given to work with?" Like the sculptor complaining that his stone is too hard, or the violinist complaining about the music the composer wrote. Students and faculty have amazingly idealistic expectations of each other, and it is amazing how reciprocal these are. If I come to class unprepared one day, students think I'm totally irresponsible and inept. If I were to explain that I was at a fantasic party the night before and that having a good time took precedence over being ready for my students, they would be totally outraged and write letters to the campus newspaper about the unfairness of the tenure system that prevents me from being fired immediately. Hey, I got to tell you guys, there are lots of times when it's just a job! When I'm in the classroom teaching some grungy statistics course, I'm counting the days to the end of the semester just like my students are. You think this makes me a villain? Just take a little survey among the faculty you know: How many of them would teach if they didn't get paid for it? I do my teaching, do a fairly good job, and earn my salary. When a student's main interest in my class is to earn whatever grade is acceptable to her, I totally sympathize. It wasn't her idea to take the course, after all. Some clown who drew up her major department requirements decided she *needs* to know this stuff and so she should be *forced* to learn it. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) : Insert as needed. Now if a student *never* takes any courses for any reason except to earn a grade, then she has the true mind-set of a victim and I feel very sad for her. Why does she force herself to keep doing something she gets no joy from? But it's not my responsibility to force her to be a different person. What *is* my responsibility is to give my students the opportunity to learn as much mathematics as they *want* to learn, and to show the ones who are receptive why it's worth learning, and occasionally to sneak up and catch the interest of a few of those who never realized before that they were capable of being interested in mathematics, because they had never before seen that mathematics is beautiful. I have mostly lost my desire to motivate students by cramming things down their throats: "This stuff is beautiful, goddamn it, and you'd better learn it even if you hate it, cause I'm putting it on the final!" Almost all mathematics faculty think it is *very important* for beginning calculus students to understand and learn the Mean Value Theorem. So one have three choices: 1) Present this in such a way as to really convince students that the MVT is worth knowing about. 2) Do a good job of presenting it, but realize that most students are just going to shrug it off. 3) Cram it down their throats by letting them know it will be on the test. Now given that students are who they are, 1) is beyond most of our abilities, and for many faculty 2) would be immoral. So one chooses 3). Now I propose a little test of the effectiveness of this stragegy: See how many of your Calculus IV students have even a vague memory of what the MVT is. Being a professor is a great job. For every grungy basic statistics course, or Calculus II course to be taught for the 92nd time, there are plenty of other courses that are really exciting to teach. And yes, maybe I _would_ teach some of them for free. (Ever hear of seminars?) And I get to go into the classroom and play god. I get to impose my values on students, and they have no choice but to accept them until they get their final grade. But let's not get carried away with the whole thing, and think that students are unreasonable because they're not *enthusiastic* about the process. -- Lee Lady lady@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu Dept of Mathematics lee@kahuna.math.hawaii.edu University of Hawaii lady@uhccux.bitnet Honolulu, HI 96822