Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!plus5!wupost!wucfua!wuibc!evren From: evren@wuibc.UUCP (Evren Senol) Newsgroups: comp.edu Subject: Discrimination against American students??? (LONG) Message-ID: <349@wuibc.UUCP> Date: 14 Dec 88 07:16:26 GMT References: <1131@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1887@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> <18121@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> <1060@l.cc.purdue.edu> <18144@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> <842@quintus.UUCP> <2521@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> Reply-To: evren@wuibc.UUCP (Evren Senol) Organization: Washington University in St. Louis Lines: 100 In article <2521@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> kathyp@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Kathy Pividal) writes: > The quotas are not to protect the American students but the American Tax >payers. Many of the foreign students (graduate) are not only benefitting >from the American educational system but are being supported (tuition >and stipend) by American federal agencies (NSF, DoD, DoE, NIH, etc.). >Because of the new tax law, I (an American Graduate student) have to pay >the US goverment taxes on my stipend, however the foreign students on >student visas pay no taxes to the US government even though their source >and amount of funding is identical to mine. Explain why this is not financial >discrimination against American students. I have been following the conversation going on about the foreign students. First of all I would like to mention that I am one of those foreign students who was (and still is) lucky enough to get educated in an American university for the last six and a half years. I know that the issue of foreign students and specially foreign engineering students is a complex one with many sides to it. However, I would like to share some of my thoughts on this with you. (This will actually make me think about the situation once again!!!) 1. Kathy Pividal is DEAD WRONG when she says that foreign students do not have to pay taxes. On the contrary, there is a discrimination against foreign students in that they are not allowed even to take the $2500.00 (the amount may be somewhat off) exemption that Americans are entitiled to on their 1040 forms. They can only claim $1200.00 (again the amount may be off a bit) personal exemption. So, as I foreign student I actually paid more in taxes than a single American student would have. However, there is one special situation that applies not only to students alone but to other foreigners as well no matter what their reasons to be in the U.S. are. That is, there are *Tax Treaties* that are signed between the U.S. government and other governments involved that allow individuals from those countries that have a treaty with the U.S. to be exempt from paying taxes. The amount of exemption varies from something like $1000.00 to total income. I think students from China can claim all of their income exempt. Remember though that the American citizens who work in these countries also get tax breaks. 2. At this moment, as I am typing this response, I do not have the statistics with me but I think I can find them if necessary. The statistics I am talking about show that, contrary to popular belief, there are a LARGE number of foreign students, both undergraduate or graduate, who actually PAY their way. The U.S. universities actually make money off of these foreign students. I am not saying that the universities should not do that, all I am saying is that there doesn't exist a situation whereby the U.S. universities are losing money over foreign students. 3. The U.S. has a LOT more to gain from these foreign students than to lose. As mentioned in the previous discussions a way for a foreign student to gain permanent residency (get a Green Card) is to pursue a doctorate degree in order to qualify for a job that few other Americans are qualified for. So, if a foreign student is so qualified as to get permanent residency, then he or she will be part of the American work force and thus actually help the U.S. to develop. And at the point that he or she obtains permanent residency the label of *foreigner* will not be an issue. On the other hand, if that person leaves the U.S. after getting all the education he or she can, after getting used to the *American way of living*, getting all the American ideals and thoughts, there is a much much greater probability that whereever the person goes, he or she will be a strong proponent of American ideas. This will effectively make them many ambassodors of the U.S all around the world. If you add to this the fact that most of those people get high level government or private jobs when they return to their home countries, I think the benefit to the U.S. is obvious. 4. As mentioned before, about half of the doctorate students in the U.S are foreign nationals. If you, the Americans, think that there is something wrong with this, please look no further. MOST of the fault lies in the American society. Other than not getting much recognition for getting a doctorate degree, the FINANCIAL opportunities at Master's or even at Bachelors degree level is SO high that any person would easily be deceived to forget about higher education and start making money. It takes a LOT of courage to forget about $30,000.00 a year, work for about $10,000.00 a year on an assistantship of some sorts (if you are luck) and pay in the order of $10,000.00 a year in tuition. 5. The Congress and the President of the U.S. were out of their minds when they passed the new tax bill requiring graduate students (American or foreign) to pay taxes not only on their stipends but also on the TUITION remission they receive. (As an example, I would be required to pay taxes on tuition remission I receive for up to $2000.00 a year!!!) As if the graduate student salaries were enough to live on, now we will all get MUCH less to survive on. This is all the more reason for Americans not to go to graduate school, and I CANNOT blame them. 6. I am sure there are other points that I have not mentioned, but this article is long enough for the time being.... Evren Senol evren@wuibc.wustl.edu __________________________________________________________________________ I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said, BUT I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant! __________________________________________________________________________