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From: matloff@bizet.Berkeley.EDU (Norman Matloff)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Foreign students, taxation, discrimination
Message-ID: <18324@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: 15 Dec 88 03:19:38 GMT
References: <3873@pt.cs.cmu.edu>
Sender: usenet@agate.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: matloff@iris.ucdavis.edu (Norm Matloff)
Organization: EECS, UC Davis
Lines: 57

In article <3873@pt.cs.cmu.edu> jl@a.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Juan Leon) writes:

>Also, the "American educational system" (whatever that is) is
>benefitting from the foreign students, who are harming the
>educational system in their home countries.>

This is quite true, in both respects.

In many fields, American universities rely VERY heavily on foreign
students.  In our department, which I think is typical, without
foreign students many of our courses would not have TA's, and many
of our research projects would not have RA's.  Moreover, we wouldn't
have a significant fraction of our faculty either, since many of
them came to the U.S. originally as foreign students.

>> but are being supported (tuition
>> and stipend) by American federal agencies (NSF, DoD, DoE, NIH, etc.).

>Not true.  Foreign students do not get fellowships or any
>direct money from any agency remotely associated with the
>U.S. government.  They may be benefitting from funds given
>to a whole department, but the department (and the US) is
>getting something in return.>

You are splitting hairs here, Juan.  Lots of foreign students are
supported as RA's, which provide them with salary and in many cases
tuition.  Most of the rest get other forms of support, e.g. TA's.
[Of course, I am referring to graduate students in both cases,
but since the majority of foreign students seem are graduate 
(I believe this is true), this is relevant.]

>Foreign students pay taxes too.  Not only that, but they don't

As someone else mentioned, some foreign students come from countries
which have special agreements with the U.S., which either eliminate
or greatly reduce the tax these foreign students pay.  [Note, though,
that they all pay sales tax.]

>They also cannot get most of
>the benefits derived from paying taxes.

Not true.  For example, in Davis, there are a number of spouses of
foreign students who are enrolled in the English classes sponsored
by the city government, and many have kids in Davis city schools.
I don't recall the other government services they are getting, but
there are quite a few.  And of course even if they pay full university
tuition, it doesn't cover the full per-student cost of running the
university.

>Explain why this is not financial discrimination against foreign
>students.

It IS discrimination against foreign students.  The question is
whether this discrimination is JUSTIFIED, in public universities,
and even in private universities if the school gets a lot of
federal funds.  

    Norm