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From: dykimber@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Daniel Yaron Kimberg)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,sci.math,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Student preparedness (was Re: Student and ... (was Rising cost ...))
Message-ID: <4893@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Date: 15 Dec 88 05:29:53 GMT
References: <1131@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1887@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> <1057@l.cc.purdue.edu> <776@afit-ab.arpa>
Reply-To: dykimber@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Daniel Yaron Kimberg)
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Organization: Princeton University, NJ
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In article <776@afit-ab.arpa> wbralick@blackbird.afit.af.mil (William A. Bralick) writes:
>For a possible solution to these problems, I suggest Adler's
>Paideia proposal.  However, be prepared for some extensive
>complaints from people (students) who believe that they should
>be allowed to have electives during K-12.  The notion that 
>students know what they should be taught, how they should be
>taught, or what the standards should be is, of course, ludicrous.

I'm not familiar with "Adler's Paideia proposal," but I find your last statement
completely insupportable.  I had originally written a much longer response, but
let me just paraphrase myself by saying that the attitude displayed above
disgusts me.  I counter your snide remark about K-12 students with my own
equally unsupported claim: a curriculum that is blind to the needs and wants
of the students is blind to everything education is about.  I have no data
to support this, but I have no doubt that if I'd been taught under your ideal
school system, I'd be loading trucks or something instead of filling out grad
school applications.  A good curriculum should adapt to the students, and part
of that involves teaching what the students want to learn and how they want it
to be taught, at least some of the time.  As a former K-12 student (inclusive),
I feel justified in saying that your attitude toward students disgusts me.  I
might also add that due to the incompetence of certain individuals at certain
schools I have attended (most notably high school), most of what I learned
was outside of the classroom.  And due to the more competent teaching
I'm experiencing now, the trend is reversed.  And I should note that the
students are not remarkably different, nor the class size.  But now all my
classes are elective, and most of them are seminars or similarly structured.
And more anecdotal pseudo-evidence - my most memorable pre-5th grade memory
of school involved an activity which I engaged in during unstructured time,
and which has by all surface measures had a tremendous effect on my current
interests and skills.  It was not part of any standard curriculum.  That
was by far one of my best years in terms of personal development.

                                              -Dan

p.s. i'm hoping someone else will take on your remarks about television