Xref: utzoo comp.edu:1614 sci.math:5186 sci.physics:5240
Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!ncrlnk!ncrcae!hubcap!gatech!rutgers!rochester!yamauchi
From: yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,sci.math,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Student preparedness
Message-ID: <1988Dec16.153701.8316@cs.rochester.edu>
Date: 16 Dec 88 20:37:01 GMT
References: <4893@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <6435@killer.DALLAS.TX.US>
Reply-To: yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi)
Organization: U of Rochester, CS Dept, Rochester, NY
Lines: 73

In article <6435@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green) writes:
>in article <4893@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>, dykimber@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Daniel Yaron Kimberg) says:
>> Xref: killer comp.edu:1766 sci.math:5138 sci.physics:5354
>> In article <776@afit-ab.arpa> wbralick@blackbird.afit.af.mil (William A. Bralick) writes:
>>>For a possible solution to these problems, I suggest Adler's
>>>Paideia proposal.  However, be prepared for some extensive
>>>complaints from people (students) who believe that they should
>>>be allowed to have electives during K-12.

Allowed to have electives???  I think the best solution would be
100% electives.

>>>The notion that students know what they should be taught, how they should be
>>>taught, or what the standards should be is, of course, ludicrous.

The notion that public school teachers know what students should be taught,
how they should be taught, or what the standards should be is, of course,
even more ludicrous.

>In general, in K-12, the "wants" of the students are totally opposite
>the "needs" of the student. I don't know about your school, but at
>ordinary public schools like the ones I attended, most kids were there
>because they had to be, not because they wanted to be... if they had
>their "wants", they wouldn't be there at ALL. 

>But most of them DON'T want to
>be taught, and DON'T want to learn!

You're right.  But the reason why many students hate school is because
they are being held against their will for 7 (or more) hours a day, 9
(or more) months a year, being forcefed material toward which they
feel absolutely no interest.

Imagine that the government decided that there was a desperate
shortage of accountants and decided to draft *you* to spend to the
next 13 years of your life studying accounting 7 hours a day, 9 months
a year, with homework due every day.  (If you like accounting, then
substitute something that bores you to tears.)

On the other hand, it is obvious that very young children have an
intense desire to learn (as well as to play).  They are always asking
questions, "Why is the sky blue?", "What is thunder?", "What makes the
car go?", etc.  The solution is to tap this natural curiousity and
allow the child to pursue these interests wherever they take him or
her.

Of course, many older children have already been ruined by the
educational system, and it may be more difficult, if not impossible,
to show them that learning is something that can be done for pleasure
and not just to please teachers/parents or in order to get a job.

>I shudder
>to think of what would have happened to the last kid above, if he
>hadn't been bit by the computer bug and convinced (by me) that the
>only way he could take it to the logical conclusion was to do well in
>math and study CS in college (he just finished his first semester at
>the University of New Orleans).

This is *exactly* my point.  What captured this kid's imagination was
not the material he was forced to learn in school, but the discovery
that there was some field (computers) that he *enjoyed* and wanted to
pursue for his *own* reasons.

>Eric Lee Green    ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg
>          Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509              
> >> 			In Hell they run VMS.
> > No.  In Hell, they run MS-DOS.  And you only get 256k.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Brian Yamauchi				University of Rochester
yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu		Computer Science Department
_______________________________________________________________________________