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From: c60a-2by@e260-2b.berkeley.edu (Oliver Juang)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Student preparedness (was Re: Student and ... (was Rising cost ...))
Summary: more arguments against "segregation"
Keywords: student segregation
Message-ID: <18438@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: 18 Dec 88 12:02:38 GMT
Expires: 18 Jan 88 08:00:00 GMT
References: <1131@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu> <1887@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> <1057@l.cc.purdue.edu> <776@afit-ab.arpa> <4893@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <608@wuphys.UUCP> <18412@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> <4936@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
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In article <4936@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> dykimber@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Daniel Yaron Kimberg) writes:
>
>I agree somewhat, but I think that even if some are left behind unfairly, it's
>better to give some people the advantage of the sort of education they deserve
>than to not give it to anyone because you can't give it to everyone.  Of course
>the problem is that the two types of errors (advancing dead weight and
>holding back geniuses) may outweigh the hits and correct rejections.  But I
>don't think so.  I think the real problem is that to some extent, having
>high aptitude students skip a grade or whatever isn't going to solve the
>problem.  They'll still be higher aptitude, they'll just have a little more
>material to make up.  They need faster paced learning, not learning at a higher
>level.  This sort of implies that more wholesale changes would be necessary.
>
>                                                 -Dan

	I still don't know about segregations, but I definitely am _against_
"skipping" grades.  The students may have the aptitude, but what about the
emotional maturity?  I really don't think a thirteen-year-old should be put
in a classroom with eighteen-year-olds.  He/she would be eaten alive.  No,
this is not a hypothetical case, I knew a kid like that in high school.  I
think "skipping" grades should be based also on emotional/social maturity,
not just intellectual.  Let me tell you, (oh well, I'm gonna tell you
anyway), it is a real pain to have to play games to get into a movie, or a
disco, bar, etc. when you are underage and _all_ your friends are not.
	Also, "learn at your own pace" can have quite a few difficulties in
implementation.  (yes I went thru that too).  What method are you going to
use to individualize the instruction each student receives (yes, we can use
computers, but I thought we were talking about "public" schools, and many
"public" schools can't even afford books).
	One more argument against "honors" courses.  Of course, having your
child in an "honors" course is/was a very desirable thing.  Twenty years ago
they implemented the "honors" program at my high school, with a limit of I
think _two_ honors courses to be taken at the same time.  Of course,
mommy and daddy want their child to be "better" and take more than one
honors course.  Then the students complain because taking all honors courses
means that they have too much homework.  The level of instruction in the
"honors" courses falls.  The requirements become almost non-existent
(teacher recommendation or parent "permission" (gee, I think the kid really
wants to take the course.  I'll let her).  So what happens?  Now the school
is beginning an "Advanced Placement" course/track/whatever.  Care to take
bets on the quality of that course in a decade or so?
	End of rambling.

Disclaimer:  What did I say?  I don't know.
My views do not necessarily represent those of the University.  In fact, the
posters on my wall have an entirely different subject.
Mail me at c60a-2by@web.berkeley.edu <-- ARPANET?