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From: mccombt@rpics (Todd McComb)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Student and Course Integrity
Summary: classrooms ok
Message-ID: <31@rpi.edu>
Date: 21 Dec 88 15:35:13 GMT
References: <4550@homxc.UUCP> <4847@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <2082@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU> <9237@ihlpb.ATT.COM>
Sender: usenet@rpi.edu
Reply-To: mccombt@turing.cs.rpi.edu (Todd McComb)
Organization: Rensselaer Mathematics Dept., Troy NY
Lines: 61

In article <9237@ihlpb.ATT.COM> nevin1@ihlpb.UUCP (55528-Liber,N.J.) writes:

>In article <2082@imagine.PAWL.RPI.EDU> I write:

>>I agree.  Most introductory level courses (most anything taught at an
>>undergraduate level) work well in classroom settings.

>I disagree!  If this were true, there wouldn't be so many problems in
>the advanced level courses.  It is much more important the fundamentals
>to be taught well.

Indeed.  The fundamentals are very important.  But, do you think there
is a better place to teach them than in a classroom?  That was my
assertion.

>But look who teaches the intro courses at the majority of American
>universities:  teaching assistants.  What are their *teaching*
>qualifications?  None.  You do not need an education in education to be
>considered qualified to practice education at the college level (ironic,
>isn't it?).  I cannot think of any other profession where this is true.

Well, this is another factor.  I know I never liked taking courses
from teaching assistants (frankly I didn't attend if the course was
taught by a teaching assistant) but now that I'm on the other end, I
think I do a decent job.  I try at least.

Better teaching is certainly something this country could use, but
good teaching is hard to find and it is not rewarded.

>Why does this happen?  Although it is more important for professors to
>be teaching the fundamentals, they are the only ones who know enough to
>teach the advanced courses.  So what happens?  Students don't get a
>good base on which to build, and they really have to struggle all of
>their college life.  Will this change?  Probably not; universities are
>not all that interested in educating Joe Student.

Actually, I would like to see those fundamentals you talk about being
taught in high school.  When I was in high school, I don't remember
being taught anything.  Really.  I learned some things on my own, but
I would say the whole set of formal education there was an utter waste.

>Unfortunately, benchmarks, (er, uh, I mean grades) don't reflect these problems
>in the introductory courses; it is much easier to get a B in a
>100-level course if you don't really know what you are doing than it is
>in a 300-level course.  If you are getting an A or a B, you tend to
>think that you 'know' the material.  It's only later, when it is far
>too late to catch up, that your understanding is actually tested.
 
I also have a problem with grades.  I think that grades hurt the learning
process, and a place which puts too much emphasis on grades (like the
United States, and other countries I assume) creates a poor environment
for students.  I would really like to see grades done away with.  A
student knows what they know, and a grade will not reflect that in many
cases.

--todd

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                         The way I feel is the way I am.
Todd McComb                                                  mccombt@cs.rpi.edu
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