Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-lcc!ames!mailrus!iuvax!sahayman
From: sahayman@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Steve Hayman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re: more SR10 questions.  About "wbak". And "dump". And real Unix.
Message-ID: <15819@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu>
Date: 15 Dec 88 06:28:00 GMT
References: <8812041914.AA20493@umix.cc.umich.edu> <403b8739.12c4f@hi-csc.UUCP>
Reply-To: sahayman@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Steve Hayman)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Indiana University
Lines: 59

Timothy R. Giebelhaus of Apollo writes:
>You can get much more sophisticated by manipulating the backup_history files.
>For example, you can get muliple levels of dumps by saving multiple 
>backup_history files.  Though this is more complicated, it can be handled 
>through scripts.


That scheme is hardly as convenient as using dump/restore.  You get multiple
dump levels (up to 10) by changing one character in your dump script.
I wonder how long a complicated script that manipulates
backup_history files would be?

One big problem with wbak is when there's a tape error writing the
sixth of six tapes.  You have to start the wbak all over
again (please please please correct me if I'm wrong).  Dump, 
on the other hand, checkpoints itself every tape so at worst
it has to redo the sixth tape only.

Even if wbak is a great tool, and even if it's faster, it would
be really nice to have dump and restore also.  In a mixed
environment such as we have here (Vaxes, Suns, Alliant, Apollos)
it would be very convenient to use the same backup scheme
on all machines, and to be able to read Apollo backup
tapes on a Vax in a pinch, or dump over the network to
a high-density 8mm drive attached to a Sun, and so on.

So long as I'm in a curmudgeonly mood, can you please let me turn off
the registry and just deal with a regular /etc/passwd file?  The
registry is a powerful tool, but we don't have a thousand Apollos, we
only have thirty Apollos and it would be much simpler if we could use
the same account manipulation tools that work for us on all our other
machines.  And ACL's are wonderful flexible things too, I agree,
wouldn't it be nice if all Unix implementations had them, now please
just show me how to disable them and go back to regular Unix
protections.

I can hear the Apollo guys saying "No, wait, you don't want to use
/etc/passwd, the registry is great, it's got this and this
and this feature, it's replicated, it's got "organizations"
as well as groups, etc etc etc".  Well, sure.  But can you please
give me the option of using a normal password file.  Sun has
the right idea - they supply the Yellow Pages but they don't
force you to use it.

It's probably frustrating for Apollo to develop these advanced
tools and then have neanderthals like me clamor for the old unimproved ones,
but, well, we were told that SR10 was going to be "4.3, bugs and all",
and it sure doesn't seem that way.  Where's the "w" command?
Where's "adb"?  Whaddya mean, there's no assembler? 

Steve Hayman
Workstation Manager, Indiana University

P.S.  Sorry, I really didn't mean for this to be so cranky sounding.
Really, I like using my Apollo on the whole, but we've been having a
rough time trying to get SR10 going, and we're on the verge of going
back to 9.7.

P.P.S. If anybody out there is doing a native 4.3 for the Apollos,
have I got a purchase order for you.