Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!mailrus!uflorida!gatech!mcdchg!chinet!patrick
From: patrick@chinet.chi.il.us (Patrick A. Townson)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: PC Pursuit pricing amendment
Message-ID: <7400@chinet.chi.il.us>
Date: 7 Jan 89 15:44:57 GMT
References: <8901050251.AA14569@nessus.telenet.com> <2384@isis.UUCP>
Reply-To: patrick@chinet.chi.il.us (Patrick A. Townson)
Organization: Chinet - Public Access Unix
Lines: 140

In article <2384@isis.UUCP> aburt@isis.UUCP (Andrew Burt) writes:

>>          1.   Many people are suggesting  that it  is the  30 hour monthly
>>               usage  cap ... which concerns  them  the  most.
>
>Yes, it is.  Particularly since PCP was sold as a service with "unlimited"
>usage.  Given that there are around 500 hours a month available for usage
>under the old rules, 30 is awfully small.

But the service which was sold last year and the year before are no longer
available. The service you have been purchasing is being discontinued. Is
Telenet required to make something available forever just because they made
it available at one time?


>>               ... Raising  the  fixed  monthly charge
>>               penalizes those  who use  the service  less than  30 hours a
>>               month (which is statistically the vast majority).
>
>I don't care for ambiguous terms like "vast majority".  Is that 50.1% or 99.9%?


What difference does it make? Elections are won by 51.1% of the voters acting
in unison as well as 99.9%? About a year ago, Telenet did an analysis of
their traffic on PCP, and found about 80% of the users were on an hour per
day or less.


>Here I have a MAJOR objection.  I really don't count the minutes I'm
>logged in, nor does it look like I'd be able to *accurately* count the
>minutes even if I wanted to (which I don't, but that's not important
>since I **can't**).

If you do not want to count the minutes, or use some rudimentary method
of controlling your use of the system, then that is your problem. How do
you manage to control your telephone bills each month without looking at
the clock from time to time?

>I feel it is incumbent on Telenet to inform me, WHILE I'M LOGGED IN, that
>I am about to exceed my usage cap (be it 30 or 250 hours).  A warning
>one hour, five minutes, and at the point of exceeding it would only be
>fair.

Telenet *DOES AND ALWAYS HAS* told you the length of time of your connection
to a given place. Read the disconnect message when you disconnect from an
outdial. On the right side is a string of figures indicating the number
of days:hours:minutes:seconds the connection was up. Make a note of these
in the same way you estimate during the month how much your telephone long
distance bill is going to be.

Unlike most telephone companies, which have a surcharge for operator advice
on 'time and charges' on a per call basis, Telenet gives the information for
free. Just *read* what they tell you when you disconnect. As for them 
cutting in with one hour, five minutes and overtime warnings while I am in 
the middle of a connection, that idea STINKS. Most of us know how to tell
time and we might be in the middle of a down/upload. You want our download
should be screwed up by Telenet sticking a line in about the time?

>Suppose we use the horrible 30 hour limit.  Suppose *I* calculate that
>I'm at 29 hours.  I use an hour of time, because I really don't intend
>to pay for any extra time.  Then I get billed, way after the month is over,
>for an extra hour of time because my calculations were off by an hour.
>
>That ain't fair, boys.
>
>Since YOU'RE the ones who want the limit, it's YOUR duty to tell us when
>we're about to and are exceeding it.

This is really something. YOU miscalculate the time. YOU fail to read the
time messages given after every connection. And it is Telenet's fault that
you are billed. To expect them to cut in every few minutes and tell you
the accumulated time used is ridiculous. The phone company operators will
do it *if you pay extra for the call*.

And do not twist things out of context by saying '...since you are the ones
who want the limit, it is your duty to tell us...'. This is baloney.
They do not 'want a thirty hour limit'. They are saying the new product they
have for sale effective next month is a package allowing thirty hours of
calling for thirty dollars per month. They do not want a limit on your
usage. They want you to use as much as you like and *pay for it with a
reasonable amount of money*.

Do you use any other time sensitive services? Does AT&T tell you when you
have used up your one hour of Reach Out time? Does your local cable company
monitor your use of the system and make you specifically authorize a choice
of programs before playing them, just in case you might have 'miscalculated
how much time you had spent on the movie channel this month'?

>Just for your info, if the above scenario ever occurs, and every time it
>does occur, I intend to contest the charges.  I consider this situation
>much like someone sending me a package I didn't request then billing my
>charge card for it.  I would keep the gift and contest the charge.  Now
>I'm sure you don't want to go about giving people free time, do you?

They are not doing anything of the sort. And they have said any questions
about the charges each month will be answered in a DETAILED accounting which
you will recieve. It will look a lot like your phone bill, with a list of
connections and times listed one after another. You did 'request the package
sent to you' by logging on and entering your password, just like you request
the services of the telephone company every time you lift the receiver and
dial a number. 

With your attitude, I hope the first time you dispute the charges and 
refuse to pay the bill that they cut your account immediatly and put you 
in collection. 

>By the way, I do NOT consider $4.50 an hour cheap.

No, but I consider you to be cheap.

>At $30 a month
>PCP will cost more than my monthly local phone bill, and that's for two
>phone lines.  I have NEVER considered long distance inexpensive.  I
>would never pay $4.50 for extensive periods of time on the phone.
>
>Geez, I consider a movie in a theater expensive at $6/person, and that's
>about $3/hour.  Let's keep things in perspective, here!)
>
>Andrew Burt 				   			ncar!isis!aburt

If you want to keep things in perspective, then you should bear in mind that
the least expensive long distance service available is Reach Out at $7.55
per hour. The various long distance carriers all get between 12-14 cents per
minute in the middle of the night and all day Saturday/Sunday. None of them
notify you as you go along regards the amount of their service being used.

Long distance may not be (to you) inexpensive, but I think it is quite a
bargain. In any event, Telenet is asking for $1 per hour, and has agreed to
permit multiple accounts per user/household. If you think $1 per hour is
some sort of ripoff, then I cannot understand why you even own a modem. You
say 'at $30 per month PCP will cost more than your monthly phone bill...'
and I can only assume your monthly phone bill is somewhere between $25-30
per month since you did not offer this complaint when PCP was charging $25
per month. What do you think your phone bill would be without PCP? Or would
you simply not make as many long distance data calls?

-- 
Patrick Townson 
  patrick@chinet.chi.il.us / US Mail: 60690-1570 (personal zip code)
  FIDO: 115/743 / AT&T Mail: 529-6378 (!ptownson) /  MCI Mail: 222-4956