Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!njin!princeton!phoenix!dykimber
From: dykimber@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Daniel Yaron Kimberg)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Public Education is a Fraud
Message-ID: <5085@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Date: 2 Jan 89 06:40:15 GMT
References: <1124@actnyc.UUCP> <1088@naucse.UUCP> <6627@killer.DALLAS.TX.US>
Reply-To: dykimber@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Daniel Yaron Kimberg)
Organization: Princeton University, NJ
Lines: 49

In article <6627@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> robk@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Robert Killgore) writes:
>I am a high school teacher and first want to thank John for his 
>comments because I do not think there is a shortage of good (not great) teachers
>out there and most that I know are well qualified to teach their subjects
>That there are problems with education in the US in not a point that I would
>argue, but I don't think that the problem is as bad as many think it is
>
>And for the person who impuned the qualifications of most teachers ( sorry
>i did not get your name) of the math faculty at my high school we have one
>with a doctorate in math several with masters in either math or science, and 
>a few like myself with batchelors in math or related fields most with an
>education minor ( my math started with calc and ended 34 hours later) which 
>when you consider the subjects we teach is a little overkill I taught Algebra
>1 and 2 and now teach Computer Math. Are we qualified to teach our subjects?

That's a good question.  What does it mean to be qualified to teach a subject?
Certainly not just to know the material, or else there would be no problem.
Instances of teachers not knowing the material are probably much less frequent
and less damaging than instances of incompetent teachers who know the material
and are unable to teach effectively for other reasons.  [sidebar: on numerous
occasions I've known professors to give passable lectures on material with
which they weren't intimately familiar.  No harm done.  It's going to happen in
low level courses.]
    I think one problem is (and I don't mean this as a personal comment) that
too many people think they're qualified to teach just because they know the
material, or even if they don't.  But I think the conclusion that there is
a shortage of good teachers is an inevitable consequence of the fact that
in a typical classroom setting, even the best teacher can only really target
a small percentage of the students.  So if this is evenly distributed, then
individual people will only be taught well a small percentage of the time.
    More evidence that there is a shortage:
I personally (I think most of the best data on this subject is anecdotal)
went to a high school that theoretically wasn't supposed to have these problems.It was a magnet program and a demonstration school (meaning that the teachers
were supposed to be of the caliber that they could demonstrate to other
teachers).  The students were all relatively bright and motivated.  Etc.
So did we get any better education?  Based on my experiences since then, I
can safely state that in most instances my high school preparation was poor.
So I conclude that there's a shortage of good teachers.  What's more likely, I
suppose, is a misallocation of teachers.  Poor teachers are getting rewarded
too often, and getting paired with the brightest students.  Good teachers are
being put in situations where they can only spend their class time trying to
prevent actual felonies from being committed in the classroom itself.

                                                    -Dan

p.s. sorry this note is so disorganized
p.p.s. something should still be done about getting this all moved to a new
       newsgroup.  i'd take the votes myself, but i'd never have a chance to
       count them.