Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!actnyc!jsb
From: jsb@actnyc.UUCP (The Invisible Man)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Public Education is a Fraud
Summary: You can't cheat an honest man.
Message-ID: <1158@actnyc.UUCP>
Date: 2 Jan 89 16:48:36 GMT
References: <1124@actnyc.UUCP> <1088@naucse.UUCP> <6627@killer.DALLAS.TX.US>
Reply-To: jsb@actnyc.UUCP (The Invisible Man)
Organization: Diet Software
Lines: 56

In article <6627@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> robk@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Robert Killgore) writes:
)In article <1088@naucse.UUCP>, jdc@naucse.UUCP (John Campbell) writes:
)> Salary is only part of it, many people work at jobs that don't pay well
)> but are respected.  Teaching no longer pays well and is no longer respected.
)> 
)> Finally, there are some great teachers left in the system.  My son had one
)> here in this small town.  How they manage to last it out for more than 5 years
)> remains one of those mysteries of dedication that most of us will never
)> understand.  I only wish great teachers were the norm and not the exception.
)
)I am a high school teacher and first want to thank John for his 
)comments because I do not think there is a shortage of good (not great) teachers
Well, I agree with what John says above and don't see how you can claim (well,
you don't really claim it, do you?) that it follows from what he says that there
is no shortage of good teachers.

)out there and most that I know are well qualified to teach their subjects
)That there are problems with education in the US in not a point that I would
)argue, but I don't think that the problem is as bad as many think it is

You are entitled to that opinion but you'd be more convincing if you backed it
up somehow.
)
)And for the person who impuned the qualifications of most teachers ( sorry
)i did not get your name) of the math faculty at my high school we have one
)with a doctorate in math several with masters in either math or science, and 
)a few like myself with batchelors in math or related fields most with an
)education minor ( my math started with calc and ended 34 hours later) which 
)when you consider the subjects we teach is a little overkill I taught Algebra
)1 and 2 and now teach Computer Math. Are we qualified to teach our subjects?

I don't know if you are or not.  Qualification to teach, except maybe in a
legal sense, is more than having taken advanced courses.  We all know of
people who somehow made it through some advanced program (perhaps by
memorizing and regurgitating) yet kept their lack of understanding intact.  
Furthermore, even a deep understanding of a subject doesn't imply the ability
to pass on understanding to others.  On a university level, some of the most 
respected researchers can't teach their way out of a paper bag.  Teaching is
in part an interpersonal skill.  Insofar as the cliche that technical people
lack social skills is true, they will have difficulty teaching.

Is there anyone out there who claims that the ability to teach is given
adequate weight in the hiring of teachers?  Can you imagine a school system
in which the quality of education provided was linked to a school's
staying in business?  (Well, I don't really advocate the libertarian
approach of running schools like businesses because of the 'academic freedom'
issues but there is a strong correlation out in the world between what we're
willing to pay for something and the respect and attention it's given.)
We use the word 'fraud' in the subject line but considering the existance
of those dedicated teachers that John pointed out, maybe we get more than
we pay for?
-- 
Spaffords Axiom:
    "The Usenet is not the real world.  The Usenet usually does not even
    resemble the real world."
			jim (uunet!actnyc!jsb)