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From: duncan@geppetto.ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan)
Newsgroups: soc.college,comp.edu
Subject: Re: Student and Course Integrity
Message-ID: <13206@bellcore.bellcore.com>
Date: 5 Jan 89 14:31:01 GMT
References: <1217.23C35B05@rubbs.FIDONET.ORG>
Sender: news@bellcore.bellcore.com
Reply-To: duncan@geppetto.UUCP (Scott Duncan)
Organization: Computer Technology Transfer, Bellcore
Lines: 70

In article <1217.23C35B05@rubbs.FIDONET.ORG> Mike.Wasylik@f419.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Wasylik) writes:
> 
>                                                       Something my 
>father pointed out to me before sending me off to school was that the 
>most important things I would learn at school were *not* what the professors 
>taught me in the classroom, at least not specifically.

I very much agree -- looking back on my college experience.  A lot of what
has turned out to be valuable was not specifically tested or examined by any
process in college.  But it probably contributed to almost all the success I
had in anything then -- and much now.

>               I will never ever use this in real life.  However, I 
>learned valuable lessons just by thinking about some of the things 
>I was told.  In other words, I learned (actually, continued learning; 
>this skill must be developed over a *long* period of time) how to better 
>think and evaluate things for myself.

Can we who instruct (and who are instructed) really try to do something to
insure that this happens more deliberately?  Or will trying to do so just
kill the individual will to do it on ones' own?

>Another very important thing about a college education is the people 
>you are with.  This is probably the most important reason to choose 
>one university over another, who you'll be spending the next four years 
>with.

I guess, in one sense, that's true, but, other than faculty access, I think
you can find people to associate with almost ANYWHERE that will encourage you
to better things.  What is hard is risking looking less sophisticated, self-
sufficient, etc. in the process of seeking out such people since it opens you
up to folks who may be passing judgements on you left and right.  (And I do
not just mean the faculty -- probably less them than others for this kind of
an effort.)

>       (My high school English teacher would have failed me for that 
>sentence, but in the real world, people don't care... another thing 
>I've learned)

Well, asn an English teacher, I can't let this get by right? :-)  I think good
communication skills are VERY IMPORTANT anymore.  Your sentence, in and of
itself, isn't a problem; but what I discovered as a student, and tried to get
across to people I taught, is that you often REALLY don't know what you think
about a subject until tyou have had to really 'defend' it, verbally or in
writing.  Then you learn how many ways people can interpret what you've tried
to say!

>              How do you relate to people?  Interpersonal relations 
>are vital to life unless you plan to be a hermit.  I've been developing 
>this skill for years and still haven't perfected it (far from it!). 
>However, the intensively people-oriented atmosphere (for lack of a 
>better tag) is the ideal environment for honing such skills.

The problem, at least back when I was a student in the 60's was that people-
skill(s) became synonymous with emoting to others, and real skill in dealing
effectively with people didn't seem to be a part of the college scene.  I do
not know whether this ability is more clearly needed these days from the per-
spective of students.  I'm still trying to learn it.  I think it's simply
because I didn't have too many years ago when "doing your own thing" let you
avoid interacting with people in a reasonable and direct manner.

>Mike Wasylik - via FidoNet node 1:107/520
>UUCP: ...!rutgers!rubbs!115!419!Mike.Wasylik
>ARPA: Mike.Wasylik@f419.n115.z1.FIDONET.ORG


Speaking only for myself, of course, I am...
Scott P. Duncan (duncan@ctt.bellcore.com OR ...!bellcore!ctt!duncan)
                (Bellcore, 444 Hoes Lane  RRC 1H-210, Piscataway, NJ  08854)
                (201-699-3910 (w)   201-463-3683 (h))