Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!mailrus!cornell!batcomputer!itsgw!brspyr1!miket
From: miket@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Mike Trout)
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Russian access to usenet
Summary: just take 'em on down to Highway 61...
Keywords: paranoia or adaptation to reality
Message-ID: <5190@brspyr1.BRS.Com>
Date: 28 Dec 88 17:28:37 GMT
References: <204@imspw6.UUCP> <5141@brspyr1.BRS.Com> <1021@clsib21.UUCP> <335@avsd.UUCP>
Organization: BRS Info Technologies, Latham NY
Lines: 69

In article <335@avsd.UUCP>, childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes:

> In article <1021@clsib21.UUCP> scott@clsib21.UUCP (Scott P. Herzig) writes:

> >... to stop potential mechanized invaders.  All we need is rush hour!

> Nahhh. Do you know how much those things weigh ?

Depending on the vehicle, between 10 and 60 tons, sometimes even more.  The
average main battle tank generally runs between 40 and 55 tons, usually 
tending more toward the higher number.

> Let's put it this way. If you put an armored tank in a demolition derby,
> I seriously doubt it would get more than a few dents, those from whatever
> few International Harvester vehicles were so unfortunate as to be in the
> derby with aforementioned tank.

True enough.  But crushing cars and trucks slows you down considerably, and
speed and mobility are critical elements of blitzkrieg.  Even worse, running
over stuff tends to weaken and cause damage to tracks and running gear.  I
would wager that after running over ten or so automobiles, the average tank
would have to pull over to have some track maintenance done.  And a rush hour
traffic jam, after being "flattened" by armored vehicles, would still be an
incredible tangle of wreckage and debris that would tend to get caught in
tracks.  Any tank driver will tell you that if you're not careful, a glancing
blow against a rock or tree will cause the track to fly off.  I tend to agree
with Scott that the typical USA rush hour would be a severe handicap to any
invader, and is probably our best "ace in the hole."  Note that during an
invasion, everybody and his brother would be in their personal vehicles trying
to get somewhere, and THAT mess would make a normal rush hour look like
Pee-Wee's Playhouse. 
 
> But beer bottles abound, and napalm can be made by adding together gasoline
> and styrofoam, so I don't think we'd be entirely helpless were such a damned
> unlikely thing to happen.

But guerrilla warfare requires a high level of skill and organization,
something that comes from national experience with thwarting invaders.  As the
USA has, for all practical purposes, never really been invaded, the 
effectiveness of USA civilian irregulars is a very open question.  I'll place
my trust in the US Army, Navy, and Air Force, who know roughly how to handle
such things, rather than in Uncle Joe-Bob who thinks he will stop a column of 
T-80s with his 12 gauge.  Note that part of standard training for all Soviet
tank crews is to drive their tank through something like a car wash--except
that the wash sprays gasoline instead of water, and the gasoline is then
ignited.  The crew must demonstrate their ability to avoid panic, stop the
vehicle, extinguish the fire (incidentally, all modern tanks are immune to 
damage from being doused with flaming liquids), and continue on their way.
Actually, in a combat situation, the approved procedure (for all nations, not
just the USSR) is to ignore the harmless fire and continue driving. 

> People who spend their time dreaming about world conquest usually forget the
> cost of the infrastructure required to maintain their holdings. Entropy never
> takes a vacation, and neither do guerillas, last time I checked.
> So I wouldn't worry about takeovers. If some country is stupid enough to try,
> I have every confidence it will be the most expensive mistake they make in
> their career as world leader.

Absolutely true.  The WW2 Germans found that occupying even "quiet" areas
burned up an unacceptable amount of resources, and hotbeds of guerilla activity
(USSR, Yugoslavia, Norway, France) swallowed up entire divisions on occupation
duty.  Anybody who is stupid enough to invade the USA (even if they somehow 
get to the beaches) deserves whatever they get.
 
-- 
NSA food:  Iran sells Nicaraguan drugs to White House through CIA, DIA & NRO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Trout (miket@brspyr1)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BRS Information Technologies, 1200 Rt. 7, Latham, N.Y. 12110  (518) 783-1161
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without...a rebellion." Thomas Jefferson