Xref: utzoo comp.sys.amiga:27083 alt.flame:3575 Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!bloom-beacon!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!rutgers!ucsd!orion.cf.uci.edu!elroy!gryphon!pande!richard From: richard@pande.UUCP (richard) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga,alt.flame Subject: Re: Paint Jet Printers Message-ID: <158@pande.UUCP> Date: 27 Dec 88 22:02:32 GMT Reply-To: richard@gryphon.COM (!Matt Crawford) Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga Organization: The Panda Group Carson, CA Lines: 202 (To all you readers of .amiga: flame warning. There is some techie junk about colour printers and inks at the end that you may or may not want to read. To all you alt.flame readers: Fuck off (tm)) In article <1787@hp-sdd.HP.COM> tony@hp-sdd.HP.COM (Tony Parkhurst) writes: >In article <9958@gryphon.COM> richard@gryphon.COM (Richard Sexton) writes: >>In article <5660024@hpcvca.HP.COM> another paranoid HP pinhead wrote: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Got it now ? >>>> I asked Nick Flor in San Diego HP, who wrote the firmware for the >>>> printer what was in the inks and the pinhead babbled on about >>>> ``proprietry formulas''. Yeah right. >>>> richard@gryphon.COM > >Boy, either you have a lot of pent up anger, or you just have a low opinion >of human nature. or: c) I have a lot of pent up opinions about human nature. d) I lake to flame pinheads that I feel deserve it. e) I am frustrated with HP's lack of responsivness to somebody asking information about their product, in hopes that it will fit my application. >Considering that Nick is not a chemist, and did not work on any aspect >of PaintJet in its development, it is not likely that Nick would know >what is in the ink. If he happened to come across the formulae, then >it is also unlikely that he would know what is secret and what is not. >(not a chemist, remember). Alright, what happened was I asked Nick the question above, and he said: ``I wrote the firmware for it, I'm not a chemist.'' He forwarded the question to a chemist who would'nt tell me anything. >If all you wanted was some basic info about its base, and you claim the info >is easy to come by (as you have), either by toxicity notices or just sniffing >one, they why the hell didn't you just find out for yourself! Instead you >have decided that someone else has to do it for you, and if they don't, >then they are just a "pinhead". Well, you see Tony, I though it might make sense to ask one of you HP'ers first, and if that failed, find out for myself. And as I said, the easiest way to get this kind of info is by talking to the *right* people, and get them to think they *have to* tell you. >Richard, you are very opinionated (as I), and I have agreed with many of >your postings, but I just don't see eye-to-eye with your hostility and >name calling. Yeah, well, wadda ya gonna do about it, fuckhead ? Sorry, couldnt resist. Recreational flaming, and all that. I actually like your steeenking printer. > > >Now, I am going to do you a small service, since you are too lazy to do it >for yourself.... Lazy ? ME ? You missed the part where I said I already had the answers to my questions, but go on..... >ok... I now have a PaintJet print cartridge package in front of me... >In five languages, it says that it is a PaintJet print cartridge, and use >HP PaintJet supplies for best results, (does this mean HP expects someone >else to start manufacturing PaintJet print heads?), Made in USA... Black >(the color head has about the same package.)... use before 04/90. >Nothing about ingredients or warnings. > >So, I open the box. Inside the box are directions, in six languages, and >a foil can (to seal the freshness?). On the can for the color print head, >there is no warning, but on the one for the black print head, it says: >"Caution -- Keep out of reach of children. If swallowed, call a physician." >Then it says "1.4% Tetramethylammonium". Hmm. They told me 1.5% >In the foil can, it does smell of chemicals (which I cannot identify). >The Black print head also has a "harmful if swallowed" label, the color one >does not. > >Well. Does this answer your questions Richard? No, Tony it doesnt. My REAL questions were 1) are the colours better that the Canon inks? 2) Are they as good as the Tektronix inks? 3) Are the HP inks water or alcohol based? If they are alcohol based 4) can I use them in a Canon printer? >As an additional note, there was a warning in the internal newsletter about >using the foil cans for food storage or cooking because of a toxic heat seal. >(This will probably get a warning on future cans.) Oh, this is good. Become an HP employee and discover their comsumer products a very very bad for you. Cool. >>2) There are lots of reasons to document whats in the ink. Xerox, with >> it's 4020 color ink jet printer supplied a manual with the title: >> ``product safty report'' that has as much data as you'd want on >> the inks - LD50, radiation harardm flammability, and, what the > ^^^^ >Geesh, I wonder just how many animals died to determine this info. Who cares. They're just animals. Were talking important human endevours here, like COLOUR PRINTERS! >>3) If you really want to know whats in something, you call up and >> and imply you are a doctor, and that you have a kid here who >> just swallowed a bunch of the stuff and you need to know >> whats in it, and you need to know NOW. Before the word >> ``lawsuit'' forms in their heads, they've told you whats >> in the stuff and in what concentrations. Handy sometimes. > >Are you saying that you commonly practice lying to and misleading people >(or even causing severe emotional trama) for the sake of stealing >company secrets? :-) Yes. Anything in particular you want to know ? If you HP people had the ethics of Xerox and the sense of aesthetics of Tektronix, we would'nt have these problems, now, would we, hmm ? >It is probably true that the ink is nothing special, it still required >much time and money to develop them. Fine. And I can appreciate that. And I can appreciate the fact you want to keep the formula secret. But the scenario is: ``Hi HP. I have one of your competitors colour printers. I have no intention to buy another colour printer, yours or anyone elses, but I might be interested in throwing some money at you to buy your inks if they will work in my printer.'' And I got: ``WE VILL NOT TELL YOUR OUR SECRETS''. I was impressed, let me tell you. >>And if it's ``such a competative industry'' how come HP Paintjets >>red ink is kinda orange? Tektronix, for their 4692 ink jet printer > >This seems like a subjective statement. Someone ought to measure this :-) Ok, do a simple test. Get printer output from your printer and a Tektronix printer. Put them side by side by side. Now, notice that the HP's red is sorta orange, and the Tektronix's is RED. There are companmies that will quantify these differences for you with nice CIE chromaticity numbers, but why do I have to tell you this ? >>has outstanding, pure, saturated colours. Their reds are red. >>Period. > >One problem I have noticed with good saturated colors, is that is starts >to become limiting in your graphic printouts when you lighten or brighten >some of the shades. These inks are subtractive, remember. Hmm. I agree in principle with you, although I've seen Tek printouts that had smooth shading that were fabulous. No problems in this area. >Another thing to consider is that different papers seem to saturate differently. Yes, the ink jet technology is one that you must essentially use the paper that the company who makes the printer specifies. Although there are papers made for other appliations that sometmes work as well. Hard to find and expensive though. >I use my PaintJet with an Amiga, and I always end up altering the colors a >bit when I print them out. Usually, I decrease the saturation of the darker >colors. It's worse with the Canon. You want blue ? Make it look green on the screen ? You want Red ? Tough. Although, for all colour printers, it seems a correction has to be made. If Kevin McBride (the guy in the cast) still had net.access, he would pop in here and point out that only Eikonix doesnt suffer from this syndrome. The conversion of absolute RGB, or screen colours, to printer colours is one that is left up to the user in the case of the Amiga system software, but is handled by the system software in the case of Eikonix. Hint, hint, guys. >Tony Parkhurst ( tony@hp-sdd.HP.COM ) You ever read that old thing that popped around rec.humor every six months ``Lunch at HP''. I felt like the guy in the story trying to order a cheeseburger when was trying to find out if you'se guys inks were alcohol or water based. It's too bad I had to call you guys pinheads to get you to respond. But thanks anyway. Cheers, -- ``It's either Spanish or Latin'' -- Mike Fennell richard@gryphon.COM {b'bone}!gryphon!richard gryphon!richard@elroy.jpl.nasa.GOV