Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!purdue!haven!umbc3!cs374326
From: cs374326@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Peter Johansson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple
Subject: Re: demon-dialers (2nd Request)
Summary: Ethical issues of wargames dialers (and unrelated flame!)
Keywords: Pain in the a**
Message-ID: <1488@umbc3.UMD.EDU>
Date: 25 Dec 88 20:02:59 GMT
References: <8812250929.aa21811@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> <26917@bu-cs.BU.EDU>
Reply-To: cs374326@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Peter Johansson)
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Lines: 75

In article <26917@bu-cs.BU.EDU> ptownson@bu-cs.bu.edu (Patrick Townson) writes:
>In article <8812250929.aa21811@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> C70301DB@WUVMD.BITNET writes:
>>I've posted this question before, but if it didn't make it, here it is again.

Your first article made it here.  We just ignored it.

>>
>>Are demon dialers (like in "War Games") legal?  If so, does anyone have a
>>program listing they are willing to share or where I can acquire one?  I
>>would use it to find the BBS's in my area.  Please post replies to the list
>>or e-mail them directly to me.  Thanks!
>>
>The act of dialing telephone numbers for no other reason than to detirmine
>how they are are answered (modem, voice, etc) is harrassment, and in very
>poor taste.
>[stuff deleted...]
>The Demon Dialer as a hardware device used to store a large directory of
>numbers and redial repeatedly as required to establish a *legitimate*
>connection is a legal, and quite useful device.
>Patrick Townson
>>Rob Caton

   As Mr. Townson mentions, there is a difference between "Demon
Dialers" (most likely a trade mark of someone) and what are known in
the BBS world as "Wargames Dialers."  The primary use of the wargame
dialer is to locate the telephone numbers of mini and mainframe
computers belonging to corporations, with the usual intent of hacking
passwords into said systems.  Of course, if you have an Apple Cat
modem (a phreak's best friend) you can detect other items of interest
like test lines, loops, PABX's, LD access lines, etc...  Though I
believe the act of searching for such numbers is legal (the usual
arguement goes something like "by installing a public line, you are
allowing the public to access it...") the *intent* behind such actions
is most deffinately not.

   Please don't use the excuse that you are looking for BBS numbers.
BBS numbers are very easy to come by for practically every local
calling area in the U.S.  All you really need is the number to one
system, since most BBSs have a listing of other BBSs in the area, and
you should be able to get at least one number from a local computer
store, users group, a public net (compuserve, source, etc) or even
this very net.

Well enough flaming at Mr. Caton  (well, very low flames, this is xmas
morning) especially since I too did own an Apple Cat  ('nuff said!  :-)
many, many moons ago when I used my APPLE ][ (no trailing designations)

Now I want to turn the flames up really high on something that's
really been bothering me recently.  \begin{flame} In the past several
months, I've gotten half a dozen calls on my unpublished modem line,
to which the number of has *never* been given to any
corporation/mailing list/etc, (I'm lucky enough to have 2 lines) from
these things that are like computerized answering machines in reverse.
They call you up (and some of them are even smart enough to start
talking only after you say something) and this computer starts this
sales pitch, after which you are allowed to leave responses.  THESE
THINGS REALLY PISS ME OFF!  It is obvious that they are calling every
number sequentially, unlisted and unregistered as well, to obtain
coverage of an entire area, just like the wargames dialer of yore.  I
know what I said about opening yourself up to the public, but this is
*OUTRAGEOUS*.  I make sure and let these companies know how I feel
with as many explaitves I can get in as they allow me time, and make
sure that I *NEVER* deal with companies that use such techniques.
\end{flame}

Too bad all those t-files from (ahem, pirate) BBSs that describe how
to make devices that fry the callers phone/modem are B.S.  If they
did work, I would be very tempted to use them on occasion.  :-)

cat flames > /dev/companies.that.make.or.use.wargames.dialers

.signature busted

peter@umbc2.umd.edu
peter@umbc2.bitnet