Xref: utzoo comp.edu:1861 sci.math:5350 sci.physics:5519 Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!pdn!reggie From: reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) Newsgroups: comp.edu,sci.math,sci.physics Subject: Re: Student preparedness Message-ID: <5354@pdn.UUCP> Date: 13 Jan 89 12:24:33 GMT References: <4893@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <6435@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> <558@mccc.UUCP> <3350@arcturus> <18958@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> <5314@pdn.UUCP> <19035@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Reply-To: reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) Organization: Paradyne Corporation, Largo FL Lines: 79 In article <19035@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> matloff@iris.ucdavis.edu (Norm Matloff) writes: >In article <5314@pdn.UUCP> reggie@pdn.UUCP (George W. Leach) writes: >* None the less, there are too many foreign instructors out there who >**do* have very poor english skills. In fact, there are many foreign students >*who enter US universities without adequate english skills as well. I know >*that some universities are really pressed for help, but something needs to >*be done to get these people to a level of english that does not inhibit >*others or themselves. >I think that by implication you were also referring to foreign-born >engineers in U.S. companies, where they have even worse communication >problems. Yes, that too. However, not everyone is guilty of this. There are foreign-born students, engineers, etc... who speak English better than you and I! >I agree. But again, I feel that it is much more a matter of GENERAL >communication skills than a matter of accent, grammar and vocabulary. >Most foreign (East Asian) engineers do very much need to improve on >the latter aspects, but they need EVEN MORE to improve non-language >specific communication skills. I'll agree with you on this. Some folks that I worked with at a former employer in New Jersey not only have verbal problems, but socially they did not seem to feel comfortable dealing with other people in English. >Unfortunately, they tend to do neither. I once took a survey of >Chinese students in my CS program, and found that during their school >years in their own countries (Taiwan, Hong Kong, China), they didn't >pay much attention to their language courses, even their CHINESE >courses; they put most of their effort into their technical courses >instead. I know that high schools in Hong Kong tend to have separate >"majors" for "arts" students versus "science" students, and the latter >usually don't place a high value on languages/communication. That is unfortunate. Years ago the same was true in this country. The science and math courses were everything and who cares if you can speak, read or write. However, communication skill play a very important part in a technical person's life and should not be ignored. >In light of the foreign students' immigration goal which I have mentioned, >it is ironic that they don't place more emphasis on improving their English. >Good English would certainly enhance their job/immigration prospects very >strongly. I agree! I would never even think about trying to either attent a university or land a job in France. My two years of high school French are not enough. Yet, I get the feeling that many enter this country will less preparation than that! Obviously, somehow they are hearing that it is not all that important to get into an American university or to get a job. I found out how one university screens applicants from foreign countries. Traveling to the US to visit the university is not always possible, so students must take some sort of English proficiency exam and have one of their instructors write a letter confirming their skills. Often this does not work because the filtering mechanism is in the hands of the offenders! I once had a student from Taiwan who after six weeks into the course, came to me complaining that he could not understand me. He could only read one page per hour in the book! After speaking to him, I realized that his English skills were not even at the level of a pre schooler! I immediately got him out of my course, after the withdrawal deadline, and got him in touch with a prof who was offering language skill courses for these people on the side. However, a few years later I saw he was working on his Senior Project, which means someone let him back into the course the next semester and passed him! -- George W. Leach Paradyne Corporation ..!uunet!pdn!reggie Mail stop LG-129 Phone: (813) 530-2376 P.O. Box 2826 Largo, FL USA 34649-2826