Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!ncis.llnl.gov!helios.ee.lbl.gov!pasteur!ucbvax!bloom-beacon!mit-eddie!killer!elg
From: elg@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (Eric Green)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Are Americans Intellectually Inferior?
Message-ID: <6870@killer.DALLAS.TX.US>
Date: 21 Jan 89 01:22:46 GMT
References: <349@sunset.MATH.UCLA.EDU>
Organization: The Unix(R) Connection, Dallas, Texas
Lines: 59

in article <349@sunset.MATH.UCLA.EDU>, troly@redwood.math.ucla.edu (Bret Jolly) says:
> In article <2085@scolex> brianm@sco.COM (Brian Moffet) writes:
>>that children recieve in the States.   I would have to say the lack
>>of respect for educators is partially responsible for this low
>>education.  Why Should I, who makes over 30K a year, go teach at a 
>>school where I would probably make half that.
>    You seem to underestimate teacher's salaries. In the LA unified
> school district the average tenured teacher makes about 35k. And this
> is for a 9 month year. Pro-rate this and you see that they are being
> paid quite well, especially considering their frequent inadequacy.

I seem to recall reading an article in a magazine that said that over
the past 8 years, teacher salaries have risen drastically, from around
18K/year to over 25K/year. I know that here in Lafayette, Louisiana,
teachers typically make around 24K/year -- a quite comfortable living
in this area (VERY low costs for housing, utilities, groceries). The
Lafayette school system is one of the best in the state (which isn't
saying much), partially because their salaries allow them to "pick and
choose" when it comes to hiring teachers (they get applications from
all over the state, and even from surrounding states -- but, then
again, an application from Mississippi or Arkansas, two other states
with high illiteracy rates, isn't something to rave about ;-}.

>   Part of the problem lies in the colleges and universities which allow
> incompetent future teachers to graduate. For example there are

One of the problems lies in the definition of "competent." Here in
this state, to get teacher certification, you have to make a certain
score on the NTE (National Teachers Exam). New teachers teaching in
this state are therefore competent, BY THE STANDARDS OF THE TEACHING
PROFESSION. In my view, though, the vast majority of teachers are
INCOMPETENT when it comes to teaching mathematics, even though by the
standards of the teaching profession they are quite well-trained.
These standards were set by the currently existing teachers, most of
whom have "math phobia", and serve only to perpetuate the current
mis-teaching of mathematics in our elementary schools.

Note that teaching of the sciences has the same problem, except it's
not so critical because learning, e.g., Chemistry, doesn't require
extensive background in the subject. I won't even mention my encounter
with a Physics teacher who knew very little of the subject. The
"science education" curriculum generally does not require that its
students take any courses beyond "introductory" courses. I took the
same introductory Physics courses as the future "science educators"
take, and can truthfully say that I don't don't know the subject. Can
it be Physics, if it is a course in formula regurgitation that doesn't
use calculus(which describes the "why" of most of physics)? But,
because the future educators don't have the math background, they
wouldn't be CAPABLE of learning "real" Physics. Yet, THEY ARE
COMPETENT BY THE STANDARDS OF THE TEACHING PROFESSION.

Perhaps experts in the particular fields should be setting the
standards, instead of professional educators?

--
Eric Lee Green    ..!{ames,decwrl,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!elg
          Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 Lafayette, LA 70509              
Netter A: In Hell they run VMS.
Netter B: No.  In Hell, they run MS-DOS.  And you only get 256k.