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From: matloff@bizet.Berkeley.EDU (Norman Matloff)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Are Americans Intellectually Inferior?
Message-ID: <19671@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: 30 Jan 89 00:45:38 GMT
References: <1461@trantor.harris-atd.com> <19554@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> <27541@bu-cs.BU.EDU> <15993@joyce.istc.sri.com>
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Reply-To: matloff@iris.ucdavis.edu (Norm Matloff)
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In article <15993@joyce.istc.sri.com> gds@spam.istc.sri.com (Greg Skinner) writes:
>In article <27541@bu-cs.BU.EDU> cd@bu-cs.bu.edu (Clarence K. Din) writes:
*>True, as Norm said, it has to do with culture.  But Asian-American culture
*>enforces this thing that many other cultures do not enforce: DISCIPLINE.
*>Many Asian kids are taught, since childhood, that getting low grades is
*>shameful.  Therefore, to combat the idea of "losing face," the Asian
*>child must continually strive to succeed throughout his/her school
*>years. [...]

>Perhaps (some) Americans cannot compete with Asians because their
>parents did not shame them into being straight A students.  I take my
>hat off to those parents.  In my opinion, it's far better to provide a
>child with care and nurture than to criticize them for failure.

What I feel very strongly should be done is for parents to create a 
learning environment for their kids, in a POSITIVE way, e.g. by setting 
a good example.  If parents themselves enjoy reading for recreation, have 
a good intellectual curiosity, etc., then the kids will follow quite 
naturally.

By contrast, Asian kids, including recently immigrated Asian-Americans,
tend to grow up in an environment where education, though valued
enormously, is not considered fun or enjoyable.  This is good for
neither them  --  since they often wind up doing work which is not
of interest to them  --  nor for society, for the same reason.  It is
extremely difficult, if not impossible, to do really well in a profession
that one is not interested in.

On this last point, I think it is very significant that at least one of
the Chinese Nobel Laureates (Ding, I believe) achieved greatness IN SPITE 
of the Chinese system of education, rather than because of it.  He apparently 
had a great intellectual curiosity as a child, and spent more time pursuing
this than the rote memorization required for his university entrance exams, 
and failed them.  Of course, Chinese people think this is "cute," and they
also delight in similar stories about Einstein, but I feel that they are
completely missing the point.

Of course, great achievement also requires a high degree of self-discipline, 
so Clarence's point is well-taken, but as someone who is involved in various
ways with the Chinese community, I feel very strongly that the parents are
taking the WRONG approach.  I feel sorry for the kids, and feel that there
is a tragic opportunity cost (i.e. waste of talent) which comes out of this.

   Norm