Xref: utzoo unix-pc.general:2134 comp.sys.att:5374
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!rutgers!njin!princeton!njsmu!mccc!pjh
From: pjh@mccc.UUCP (Pete Holsberg)
Newsgroups: unix-pc.general,comp.sys.att
Subject: Re: MGR on the 3b1
Message-ID: <591@mccc.UUCP>
Date: 29 Jan 89 17:14:00 GMT
References: <124@bsadrc.UUCP> <1615@umbc3.UMBC.EDU>
Reply-To: pjh@mccc.UUCP (Pete Holsberg)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The College On The Other Side of U. S. Route 1
Lines: 76

In article <1615@umbc3.UMBC.EDU> alex@umbc3.umbc.edu.UMBC.EDU (Alex S. Crain) writes:
=	The X server could be ported to the 3b1 pretty easily. the mfb code
=is straight forward, and with the lowlevel access available, it could even
=run fast. I expand:
=

 [ stuff about x-specific coding ]

=
=	So if its so easy, why arn't I coding away? well, there's a few issues
=here.
=
=	-1) Do this and kiss off everything that uses the existing wmgr. I 
=personally wouldn't miss it, but alot of people use that stuff (like the UA,
=texview, picture, 3b1tools, even the fancy font for nethack).

I'm not too worried about losing the UA stuff.  I'd happily kiss-off all the
GSS-based graphics stuff to get a REAL windowing environment for this beast.
A point though - most of the UA routines are shell-script based, and could
probably be moved into an X-windows-based routine without too much hassle.

=
=	-2) There is now way that this is not a huge project. the X11R3 
=distribution and contrib files is right around 100 Mb of source. The X server
=is a 400Kb+ process that runs all the time. I have no idea how much of it
=could be stripped out or could stay swapped out, but its still alot of
=resources.
=

Well, you wanted to upgrade anyway, right?  Most people doing serious
things with their 3b1's are STARTING at 1 meg, with plans to go higher
anyway (is anyone making a nice simple Mem card for this machine?  I 
DONT want to piggy back stuff)

=	-3) X11 is slow on a VAX, it's got to be pretty slow on a 3b1.
=

We're used to it.

=	-4) 740x320 is pretty small for a windowed environment.

Ever run Microsoft Windows in CGA mode?  Frightening, but functional.

=
=On the plus side:
=
=	2) there's alot of stuff available for X, like Tex and troff 
=previewers, drawing programs, icons, windows with adjustable borders, 
=window managers, etc.
=

Bingo.  There's a serious lack of GOOD software for this machine (polished,
I mean).  With all the talk of 'x' floating around, we're goign to be up 
to our eyeballs in X software, with no way to run it.

=
=	I figure that stripped sources would run about 10-20 megabytes, so
=the multiple drive cards make this somewhat more attractive. Anybody care to
=comment on the idea?

I'm not an officianado of 3b1 programmers, I don't even profess to be a good
C programmer.  BUT, an X windows handler for the 3b1 would make my year.  
I'm always trying to talk myself into spending money on this machine, saying
its outdated and not keeping up.  With an X windows driver, I could sleep
easier at night.



market, e-mail me and I'll see if I can squeeze it in. 

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