Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!killer!igloo!learn From: learn@igloo.UUCP (william vajk) Newsgroups: comp.unix.microport Subject: Re: How does Microport System V/AT handle bad blocks? Message-ID: <1095@igloo.UUCP> Date: 1 Feb 89 05:38:38 GMT References: <460@tarpit.UUCP> <326@focsys.UUCP> <464@tarpit.UUCP> <871@sceard.UUCP> Distribution: na Organization: igloo, Northbrook, IL Lines: 83 In article <871@sceard.UUCP>, mrm@sceard.UUCP (M.R.Murphy) writes: Flame mode on...what else would one expect.... > Expense is relative. Anyone care to cite the cost history of a non-academic > UNIX(tm) license over the years? Who gives a shit what the relative costs are. They promised something not yet delivered, a WORKING system. There are hidden costs in running this crapola compared to something that works out of the box, add them in and what have you now ???? > A lot of the problems with Microport systems stem from the great variety > of hardware that is "real close to just almost like" stuff from IBM(tm). We'be been over this absolute bullshit nonsense time and again. I was told that microport would run on ANY 286 AT clone, that they found NO incompatability problems, and that was the 1.3.6 that I bought. Have they improved in the past 2+ years ? Certainly they have. But they still scribble the disks in fsck, even in 2.4 Coupled with your elseif below, it is obvious that hardware isn't a large part of the solution, especially considering those who switched to xenix and cut their losses earlier realized little or no hardware problems. The problems are in the code, get it ? > That UNIX(tm) works as well as it > does in the great range of environments in which it has found itself (IBM > mainframes running UNIX over a CTS base, Univac(tm) 1100 series mainframes, > on down to 8086's running hacked 22-bit memory management) is amazing. Let's keep one thing straight here. We're discussing one vendor with one product. I could care less about products I didn't buy. It doesn't work correctly here, and in a lot of other places. Most of us that are in this newsgroup are unix buffs, Many of us have developed a certain unfavorable passion for this one vendor based on their failure to make timely repairs. Spouting about the wonders of the base product from which this one was derived does nothing good, and is simply a waste of bandwidth. > It is also interesting to note that the prices of the pieces are quite low > when compared with pieces of similar functionality from vendors such as > SUN(tm), DEC(tm), Data General(tm), ... Why do you insist it is ok to steal from purchasers 'because it is cheap?' > I am not apalled that the drivers don't work right. I am disappointed, some- > times a bit dismayed, but understanding of the people who tried to get it > right but goofed up some. If I can, I work around the problem. If I can't, > then I violate my license agreement (just a little:-) and disassemble the > offending code, and see if I can fix it. So far, so good. And this is the best bit of all. Here we have a gentleman who proports to have fixed what microport couldn't or wouldn't in over two years, and he keeps it to himself. I rather think that this explains a lot more about the author than he thinks. None of the conclusions are very *nice*. > We may not, however, be able to accept the individual burden of support > that systems of this complexity currently demand. Compared to what unix or xenix system ? Do you think reasonable 'support' for a system includes a sysadmin rehacking the code that microport screwed up ? > I disagree. I think that, taking into consideration the problems of support > in a widely varying hardware and user expertise environment, all of the > UNIX vendors, not just Microport, have done a rather amazing job. Nice of you to redefine 'support' again. Support in this context is handholding, a form of training a user. It is NOT fixing of bugs. It is NOT selling repairs that should be free. Essentially the only thing microport has done really well is to sell deffective code and string the users along through several upgrades while not fixing some of the original problems. If it were offered, would you as someone apparently favorably inclined towards microport sink your life's savings into their stock ? How about Sun or some of the other vendors you mentioned. I see. And it has nothing to do with price. It must have to do with performance. If Henry Ford had made as bad an automobile as uport has a unix release, we'd all still be riding horses. Bill Vajk | A hypocrite is a gilded pill, composed of two learn@igloo | natural ingredients, natural dishonesty, and | artificial dissimulation. -Overbury-