Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!ncis.llnl.gov!helios.ee.lbl.gov!pasteur!agate!eos!steve
From: steve@eos.UUCP (Steve Philipson)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: NASA Bureaucracy - it's for the birds
Summary: Ye pays ye money, ye takes ye chance -- You made YOUR choice.
Keywords: astronaut qualifications
Message-ID: <2407@eos.UUCP>
Date: 24 Jan 89 04:06:07 GMT
References: <15855@genrad.UUCP>
Reply-To: steve@eos.UUCP (Steve Philipson)
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Calif.
Lines: 84

In article <15855@genrad.UUCP> dls@genrad.com (Diana L. Syriac) writes:
>
>Which of these persons would you consider to have the better chance at 
>becoming an astronaut:
>
>	A young engineer with [a bachelor's degree and 3 years experience]
>	OR
>	An older engineer [with lots of work experience but who only recently
>						became degreed]

   Given only those two choices, the first one is clearly the one NASA would 
choose, as would many large companies.  This is not new policy (it pre-dates
the shuttle program), so if you really wanted to be an astronaut, you should
have looked into the required qualifications and made your decisions on how 
to lead your life YEARS AGO.  Many people have done that, and continue to do 
that.  It's a little late to be protesting about how unfair it all is -- you
didn't do your homework, or perhaps you're just not satisified with the 
result of your decisions.

   When it comes down to it, neither of the above is a likely choice for
an astronaut candidate.  There are lots of people with Master's degrees
and PhD's who have totally committed themselves to making themselves into
good astronaut candidates.  There is so much competition between THEM that
even they get discouraged and give up after their years of work.  I have a
few friends who have left NASA after deciding that they just weren't going
to get there, and they were highly qualified.

   The jobs of astronaut or mission specailist are in tremendous demand, so
NASA can afford to be very picky with who they select.  A degree does not
prove that one knows one's stuff, but it is a reasonable first cull to help
reduce the task of selecting a few people from thousands or tens of thousands
of applicants.  BTW, you could probably still get a job with NASA, but your
pay won't be as good as you could probably get outside -- even in engineering
jobs they are interested in post-degree experience.   NASA jobs ARE civil 
service positions after all...  the government likes to have some objective 
basis by which to classify people.  Ability and experience are very difficult
to asses, so your background will not help you all that much.  It may not 
seem fair, but it is the way it has been for a long time.

>And before those of you of the male gender say, "Well, how come you didn't
>go to school 3 or 4 times a week instead of just 2 times a week", stop to
>consider that being a full-time mother includes all housework and shopping, 
>finding babysitters (which are always difficult to locate), ferrying the
   [...]

   How incredibly sexist of you Diana!  Tell it to Judy Rudnick (if you
could).  She chose to forego the rewards of family life for her astronaut
career, as have many others, both male and female.  No-one gets to be
everything in life.   You made your decisions, now you've got to live with
them.  Enjoy your family and your career, and keep in mind what they cost
you, and what those people who sacrificed having what you have paid to get
to where they are.

   You say your opinion of NASA has decreased because they rejected your
application, even though it was in accord with their written policy?  What
do you want, special consideration for people who chose other priorities
first?

>I guess this is a good example of where the RICH YOUNG kid has the advantage
>over the POORER more experienced person.

   Yes, there sure seems to be an advantage to having money in this society.
Of course, some poor young kid who decides that career comes first has that
same advantage for a job with NASA.  He/she may end up paying off loans for 
years, give up many comforts and luxuries along the way, and may be 
considerably older if and when he/she gets to be a parent.  These are just 
realities of life.


   It is not my intent to "flame" you just for the heck of it.  Your 
complaints about the injustice of the system were too ill considered to
be left without a strong response.  There's nothing wrong with your wanting
a shot at an astronaut position, but you must realize that your situation
is of your own making.  Many of us who put our preparation and career first
don't have a family around to comiserate with,  but those were our choices;
we don't blame NASA for depriving of us of that.  By all means, keep trying
to get in to the program, but be aware that you will have a low probability
of selection, largely by reason of the priorities that you personally have
demonstrated.
-- 

						   Steve
					(the certified flying fanatic)
					    steve@aurora.arc.nasa.gov