Path: utzoo!utgpu!lsuc!ncrcan!ontenv!soley From: soley@ontenv.UUCP (Norman S. Soley) Newsgroups: tor.general Subject: Re: Toronto Police Message-ID: <377@ontenv.UUCP> Date: 24 Jan 89 19:59:22 GMT References: <157@aimed.UUCP> <4674@hcr.UUCP> <1989Jan20.201648.20385@lsuc.uucp> <1989Jan23.184709.8098@utzoo.uucp> Organization: Ontario Ministry of the Environment, Toronto Lines: 43 In article <1989Jan23.184709.8098@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > In article <1989Jan20.201648.20385@lsuc.uucp> sean@lsuc.UUCP (Sean Doran the Younger) writes: > >... They are certainly not allowed to shoot at someone > >brandishing a knife (Police Constables are well trained in the use > >of truncheons and are all taught how to disarm an opponent who is > >using a knife or other weapon)... > > Let us not forget that knives are lethal weapons, and that disarming > someone with a knife is much easier said than done. I'm not familiar > with the level of training that Toronto police get, but my understanding > is that disarming anyone carrying anything is generally considered to > be an expert-level procedure, and I would be very surprised if the normal > Toronto policeman has the kind of training needed to do it without grave > risk. Especially since he'd need constant practice to maintain that > kind of skill. Certianly true. Add to that the fact that it can take several officers to subdue a desparate man, (for lack of a better term) crazed from adreniline. I know that the OPP (I don't know about metro) does not carry on ongoing weapons/combat training. There are yearly courses but no tangible encouragement to practice throughout the rest of the year (most good officers do, for their own protection) this is hardly enough to maintain the kind of proficiency needed to disarm a violent attacker. I also see little distinction between gun and nightstick, the standard truncheon carried by the Metro police is a very nasty weapon indeed and can, in close combat, kill as easily as a pistol. My understanding of the policies and standing orders governing the police suggests that the conditions under which a firearm MIGHT be used include any situation in which there is a REASONABLE risk of death or injury to himself or a member of the public, some stretch this as far as allowing an officer to shoot a fleeing suspect who is know to be armed and violent. The essential decision which the courts will be faced with in both the Donaldson and Lawson cases is whether the respective officers were correct in their interpretation of reasonable risk. -- Norman Soley - Data Communications Analyst - Ontario Ministry of the Environment UUCP: uunet!attcan!lsuc!ncrcan!ontenv!soley VOICE: +1 416 323 2623 OR: soley@ontenv.UUCP " Stay smart, go cool, be happy, it's the only way to get what you want"