Xref: utzoo talk.politics.soviet:1005 comp.misc:5033 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!husc6!rutgers!att!alberta!pawel From: pawel@alberta.UUCP (Pawel Gburzynski) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,comp.misc Subject: Re: The Russians are coming (to the usenet) Message-ID: <443@cadomin.UUCP> Date: 9 Feb 89 19:16:25 GMT References: <9981@bcsaic.UUCP> Organization: U. of Alberta, Edmonton, AB Lines: 131 In article <9981@bcsaic.UUCP>, rwojcik@bcsaic.UUCP (Rick Wojcik) writes: > Pawel Gburzynski writes: > > Now, let us assume that the Russians have made it to the > > net. Below is the procedure for sending a mail abroad: > > 1. You submit a written application that specifies the destination of > > your mail, the subject, and gives clear motivation why you really > > have to send it. > > 2. You bring a letter from your local Party Committee (or Komsomol) > > supporting your application. > > 3. You pass a written test of English. > > There have certainly been some interesting claims lately about what sending a > message to Usenet will entail in the SU. Why do you assume all of this > rigamarole, Pawel? Snail mail between the US and USSR isn't restricted in > this way. What makes you think that email messages will involve so much red > tape? (Excuse the pun :-) > ......... Perhaps I exaggerated a little bit, but I wanted to illustrate some problems with the Russians joining the net that people here may not be aware of. On the other hand, I am not sure whether I really did exaggerate. The scenario that I mentioned would be quite realistic a few years ago. Although I think that as far as the Soviet reality is concerned I am in a better position to judge than some other people on the net (I left Poland in December '84), I find it difficult to asses the influence of the so-called perestroika on the life of regular people. Thirty years in Poland (which has always been far more open than the Soviet Union) taught me scepticism. When you live there, it simply pays better to have a sceptical attitude towards all subsequent promises that you hear from the people running the country. You say that snail mail to/from the Soviet Union is not subjected to ridiculous restrictions. But isn't it? You should remember that many people there are obsessed with the vision of western spies conspiring to steal their precious industrial and military secrets. Even in Poland, at least until some time ago (I am not sure whether it has changed since I left the country), it was illegal to take abroad any maps. One of my friends was telling me a story about his visit to the Soviet Union a few years ago. He was with a (Polish) colleague and they were walking some peripheral streets of Moscow. There was a strange noise coming out of a window in one building. This building turned out to be a small factory. They stopped and tried to look into the window to see what was going on behind it. After a few minutes they were approached by a militia car, their passports were checked, they were briefly interrogated, and allowed to go. It turned out that a cognizant citizen noticed two suspicious foreigners and stopped a militia car and told them that he had spotted spies. People generally know that it is better to avoid writing about certain things in letters. Some time ago I decided to abandon this habit and start writing in plain text to my brother. It seems to work and perhaps the people that read my letters before they reach their proper destination have instructions to be more tolerant. However, I tell you frankly that if I had to send an e-mail from Poland to a western country (assuming it was possible), I would think twice before putting there any complaints of political nature. Therefore I find it difficult to believe that you will soon have an open political discussion on the net involving your Soviet friends talking explicitly about their problems. Reading between lines is difficult and requires years of practice. Forgive me if you find my remark offensive, but people here are not the best experts on that matter. Easy life has taught you optimism and you are generally inclined to believe in the "good news" that you hear from someone and disregard "the bad news". I think that it is a wonderful attitude, but it does not seem to work when you try to learn about the outside world. I have been reading this newsgroup for some time and I have been reluctant to actively join the discussion. What irritates me is that there is no way to argue with certain people: there is simply no common ground. Imagine that you move to Warsaw and subscribe to a hypothetical newsgroup where people discuss exotic sports. There is a discussion about baseball (which is known in Poland not better than the problems of Eastern-block democracy are known in North America). The problem being discussed is how many innings there are in a baseball game. Various people express different opinions, and one of them says: "Two years ago I was talking to my aunt who lives in the States. I didn't ask her explicitly, but from what she was saying, it seems that the number must be between 15 and 20." Another participant (his name is Stefan Zlotopolski) writes: "When this idiotic discussion is going to end? Every educated person knows that they don't play baseball in the States any longer. This is simply a communist propaganda aimed at stupidifying Americans in our eyes. Just use your brains! Who on Earth would play such an idiotic game in the 20'th century." After a while you start feeling pity for these poor guys and decide to enlighten them. So you simply post an article and say: "OK guys. I came from the States two months ago and I can tell you that..." You believe that your posting will dispel all doubts and the discussion will switch to a different topic. However, you observe something strange. Some people simply ignore your posting and continue their idiotic guessing game. Some other people disagree with you. For example, Stefan Zlotopolski writes: "Ha! Here we go again! One more of these American emigrants. Of course everybody understands that we shouldn't really pay attention to what this guy is trying to tell. Why did he come to this country in the first place? Besides, he left the USA two months ago and he still claims to remember these numbers! Isn't it strange? In such circumstances it would be quite natural to lose interest in any further contribution to the discussion. Anyway, I will retain my scepticism and I suggest that you retain your moderate optimism. I wouldn't mind being wrong. Pawel Gburzynski