Xref: utzoo talk.politics.soviet:1006 comp.misc:5042 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!bbn!mit-eddie!killer!igloo!learn From: learn@igloo.Scum.COM (william vajk) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,comp.misc Subject: Re: The Russians are coming (to the usenet) (Not if I can help it) Message-ID: <1132@igloo.Scum.COM> Date: 10 Feb 89 13:34:29 GMT References: <9981@bcsaic.UUCP> <70779DBH106@PSUVM> Followup-To: talk.politics.soviet Organization: igloo, Northbrook, IL Lines: 103 In article <70779DBH106@PSUVM>, DBH106@PSUVM.BITNET writes: > *********************** FLAME PENDING ************************************ > If anyone believes that the damn Russians can be trusted with this system, > we might as well oblige him and let them into NORAD, as well. Just what does NORAD have to do with usenet ???? What does access to usenet have to do with trust ? This is an information medium, and a social setting. > And as to exposure to Soviet propaganda, one only has to look at the > talk.politics.*** newsgroups. There are certainly enough Communists there to > supply the entire universe with their propaganda. Ahhhh, those poor misguided souls, right ? They're not fit to be Americans, right ? Did you consider that what you've spewed here is hatred of people and propognda as well ? Did you consider for a second that someone with a chance to read usenet would find support for their own ideas of democracy and freedom here ? Or do you just label everyone in every country on some idiotic basis. Like all citizens of South Africa are oppressors, that's the ticket, while neglecting the fact that some of the oppressed are citizens too. Oh ? They're all scum till they emigrate ? Got news for ya, bub. Just to give you an example. During WW2, and uncle of mine managed to work his way westward before the Red Liberation Army freed his homeland. After things settled, he came to grips with his conscience. Although he was doing well with a new career (he was a civil engineer designing railroads) he decided that his country, right or wrong, needed him, and he couldn't do them any good where he was. His view, quite correctly, was that his nation consists of people, not a government. Yes, he returned.The people are permanent, all governments transitory. We've experienced quite a wide range in mentality in government, from the extreme conservative capitalist to the extreme socialist, and have as a nation fared pretty well in the long run, without revolution, and under a continuing umbrella. Other nations haven't always been as fortunate. I daresay that in your lifetime you'll see some rather socialist governments emerge here in the US, sooner or later to swing back to capitalist. Take a look at the programs begun by FDR sometime in that light. > Finally, to all those who believe the Russians, and particularly their > government, have changed enough to be trusted with the use of this computer: > You do not deserve to be here either, Commie scum. > Why don't you turn off the computer > and turn yourself in to the FBI > for treason!!!!! I'm hardly a communist in any sense, regardless of what Mr. Harter in his fit of religious pique wishes to believe. I'm a firm believer that information, short of materials which truly affect our national security, should be disseminated as far and as wide as possible. The person who diseminates info which impacts our defense is already subject to specific laws, so give it a break, huh ? And you're going to tell us that the scientific minds in the USSR are simply going to soak up all the info they glean from usenet and turn it against mankind ? How about helping feed some people and perhaps improving the quality of life. A few bits of information can surely help. And I have news for you too. You better have some viable definition of 'communist' in mind. Changes in the eastern block ? Sure there are. How would you feel if busses all over the US had an official new slogan painted on them which read "Lose the dogma, not Capitalism." Now what would that do to your views regarding what America is all about ? In fact, when I was in Budapest last year, the streetcars had a new motto, "Lose the dogma, not Socialism." These things have a way of spreading, you know. I suggest you lose some dogma. It's working real well for them, and it just might for you. What was more interesting though was the response I got from people when I asked about it. It was right in front of their faces, and they were so immune that not a single one of the people I talked to had even noticed, and I asked about 30 acquaintances. Makes me wonder about how many of the 'watchers' here have noticed the long term changes we've undergone in this country, in spite of the fact the changes are right in front of their faces. They missed the slogans, but certainly have no difficulty recognizing the latest import from the west, an income tax. They are quite aware of the changes. Too bad you've been missing them. > Daniel Harter > DBH106@PSUVM.BITNET > Defender of Democracy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You and Joe Mc Carthy. > Penn State University Daniel, please write to your Democrat representatives in government. Ask them about the social programs they support, and what those programs do. Then tell me about how we have no socialistic tendencies in this country, the evils of socialism, and just how bad the premise is. No, the USSR is no haven of great political doings. They're just trying, as we are, and are finally coming around to joining the world instead of constantly fighting it. Might serve you well to follow their present instead of their past example. Hi there, FBI. Won't it be nice when you can reduce your workload a bit ? Always cut the cards. Keep a smile on your face and the lasergun cocked and out of sight. Easy to make and keep friends that way. Bill Vajk | A person of quality is never intimidated. learn@igloo |