Path: utzoo!utgpu!utstat!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!nrl-cmf!ames!amdcad!sun!pitstop!sundc!seismo!uunet!munnari!murdu!sue
From: sue@murdu.OZ (Sue McPherson)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: Practical Experience ( was MS CS -  C binary search )
Message-ID: <1519@murdu.OZ>
Date: 9 Feb 89 01:46:22 GMT
References: <67605@ti-csl.CSNET> <530@sirius.UUCP>
Reply-To: sue@murdu.UUCP (Sue McPherson)
Organization: Software Contracts Group, University of Melbourne, Australia
Lines: 64

In article <530@sirius.UUCP> tarry@sirius.UUCP (Steve Tarry) writes:
>
>It has long puzzled me why there are so few masters degree programs in
>Software Engineering and even fewer (none that I know of) bachelors
>programs. 

I read Steve Tarry's article on the wonders of an MS in Software Engineering
and the shortage of MS programs with some confusion. I certainly can't speak
CS degrees in the US but in Australia I did a BSc with a Comp Sci Major, a
three year course which had the following content;
1st Year
	Comp Sci - Fundamentals, Information Structures, Algorithms & Systems
	Chemistry
	Physics
	Pure Maths
2nd Year
	Comp Sci - Hardware/Low-level stuff, Numerical Methods & Systems
	Pure Maths
	Statistics
3rd Year
	Comp Sci - Advanced Data Strcutures, Real-Time systems, Database
		   Management, Theory of Computation, Computers & Society
		   AND Software Engineering 

I chose the "software stream". Other "theoretical", "Numerical" and "Hardware"
subjects were available. There was a free choice from the subjects offered
in the science faculty available in 1st and 2nd year.

In regards to the contents of the MS program, I would like to make the
following comments;

>--Group work on projects was required.  In particular, instead of an
>  individual thesis (which was not an option), one had to develop
>  and deliver two software products with teams of fellow students.
We did two group projects, a specification and a software product (My group
developed a Word Processor, others did forms entry systems, database systems..)

>--Exposure to non-technical aspects of software development was an
>  essential part of the degree.  For example, a course in software
>  project management was required, not to mention the lessons learned
>  in the group projects.
Part of the Software Engineering subject

>--There was a heavy emphasis on techniques (e.g., structured analysis
>  vs. Jackson's methods) and tools (from spreadsheets to compiler generators)
In SE we covered design methodologies. Tools such as compilers, compiler
generators, editors and DBMSs were covered in various subjects, we were
never introduced to spreadsheets but perhaps that was because most people
can figure that out by reading a few pages of a manual.

I'm sure that the course content of the MS in Software Engineering is
worthwhile, what worries me is that it Steve seems to be suggesting that
these things aren't in a normal CS degree.

The MS seems very useful for engineers/accountants/other graduates who
find themselves in programming but for anyone who has done a good CS degree
it would seem superfluous. Perhaps now that the supply of CS trained
programmers is starting to meet the demand, there is no longer the same need
to "re-train" other graduates?

Sue McPherson
Consultant, Software Contracts Group
University of Melbourne
sue@murdu.mu.oz