Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!hplabs!pyramid!epimass!jbuck From: jbuck@epimass.EPI.COM (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: news.admin Subject: Re: New compromise position on rec.humor.funny Message-ID: <2858@epimass.EPI.COM> Date: 7 Feb 89 22:40:18 GMT References: <2732@looking.UUCP> Reply-To: jbuck@epimass.EPI.COM (Joe Buck) Organization: Entropic Processing, Inc., Cupertino, CA Lines: 82 In article <2732@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: > [ new proposed copyright ] > Rec.humor.funny newsgroup joke stream & collection > > Compilation Copyright 1987,88,89 by Brad Templeton > >You can copy and distribute the rec.humor.funny stream/collection in whole or >in part in electronic form, as long as you don't try to make money off it, >or pretend that you are the one who put it together. I have no problem with this wording. It eliminates my main concern, which was that asserting rights to restrict who could read or receive a newsgroup would make net management completely unworkable (moral objections aside). >Since a number of posters feel that I should have absolutely no control >over who feeds what to who on usenet (and I can see some merit in that), I >would also very much like to add the following: >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This newsgroup sometimes contains material some consider > offensive, and material that may not be suitable for some > minors. As such, all redistributors should make sure that > nobody reads the group other than by personally requesting it, and > all redistributors should take whatever precautions they feel are > necessary with regards to newsgroup access by minors. >and > No warranties ae made about the accuracy of warning keywords > or rotation schemes. I don't have any problem with this either. Responsibility for what goes on on a particular system is exclusively held by the owners and administrators of that machine; you've fulfilled your responsibility by giving them adequate warning. (Just the same, I wouldn't mind seeing more uniform standards for rot13'ing -- I see a lot of jokes with language you can't use on radio or television that are not rot13'd -- of course we all make mistakes from time to time). >TO SUMMARIZE: > > a) I will change the licence statement to one that everybody should > be able to handle, and I'll even make it looser if necessary, > adding the various promises I have made in this debate. Your statement is acceptable to me. > b) I am asking if people object to the inclusion of a clause that > puts responsibility where control is, asking site admins to > worry about who reads what on their own site. No problem here. > c) I'm giving up my quest for rights I can use in fights against > those who wish to destroy this newsgroup. Actually, Brad, I think your assertion of these rights would tend to work against you. If you took the position that the joke posters were responsible for the jokes and you were just a gatekeeper, your liability would perhaps be less than it would if you took a dictatorial stance about ownership, where no one but you could possibly be blamed. > d) Once again, I'm ready to give whatever assurances people need > that I don't intend to be some sort of net dictator here -- > randomly shutting off sites or demanding fees from honest, > hardworking sites that charge to cover costs. People are talking > like I have an army of lawyers and am planning lawsuit city. > That's about as far from the truth as I can imagine. I think it's important at this point not just to look at what rights we have as posters, admins, and moderators, but what rights we need to agree to relinquish to make Usenet workable. There simply aren't any legal precedents on Usenet. I know a lot of folks out there are lawyers or have talked to lawyers about what's what, but until there are actual rulings (and I hope that day never comes, to tell you the truth), any lawyer's opinion is just that -- an opinion. We'd be on more solid ground if we just agreed up front what rights people have, and what rights they relinquish. -- - Joe Buck jbuck@epimass.epi.com, or uunet!epimass.epi.com!jbuck, or jbuck%epimass.epi.com@uunet.uu.net for old Arpa sites Life is not a dress rehearsal.