Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!pasteur!ames!oliveb!amdahl!drivax!macleod
From: macleod@drivax.DRI (MacLeod)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Space travel and the human spirit
Message-ID: <4246@drivax.DRI>
Date: 7 Feb 89 12:26:43 GMT
Reply-To: macleod@drivax.DRI (MacLeod)
Distribution: usa
Lines: 72

Paul Dietz and I discuss manned space flight:

In article <4239@drivax.DRI> macleod@drivax.UUCP (MacLeod) writes:

:>I'm 36, and I'd trade the rest of my life for one LEO, assuming I could 
:>take a stack of (old) Yes and Vangelis CDs along.  Quality, not quantity, 
:>makes a life well-lived.
:
:Your current life is so unpleasant that you'd sacrifice your remaining
:decades for one 90 minute orbit?  Why, this is hell, nor are you out
:of it.  And my condolences to your would-be widow and children, if they
:exist.

I didn't say this just to be provocative; it is true.  I do believe that I am
an extreme case who has tried to examine his feelings, and that there
exist others who share such sentiments to greater or lesser degrees.  I
wanted to speak for them as well.  Can you not imagine a feeling so sublime
that you would trade any other experience for it?  

:>Some individuals experience extreme emotions, bordering on the "religious", 
:>when contemplating the entry of man into space.  I do believe that it is 
:>spiritual, of the *human* spirit, in the most sublime sense: it is something
:>no animal would ever do, nor could it want to.
:
:Um, let's not commit the common philosophical error of confusing the
:individual with mankind in general.  It is consistent for me to
:believe that people will eventually live in space and yet still think
:that it would be pointless for me, personally, to travel there.

I'm not sure we understand each other here.  My purpose in my posting was
only secondarily to say that men >should< go into space because men >want< to 
go into space; my primary purpose was just to affirm that the desire can be
pretty overwhelming.  I mentioned in passing that I thought that such desires
were ordinate to man as a being, and so rational.

:By the way, how would *your* going into space help achieve any goals,
:other than purely personal ones?

I was only talking about purely personal goals, so my apologies if I mislead
readers.  Still, I think it will be a good thing when artists and writers and
poets are able to visit space and return their impressions to the rest of us. 

:>The fundamentally conservative values of those who oppose manned space flight:>are not to be questioned.
:
:Once again, it should be noted that opposing manned spaceflight IN THE
:PRESENT (or, more precisely, opposing the appropriation of public
:funds to pay for manned spaceflight) does not mean opposing manned
:spaceflight for all time.  Nor is it obviously true that manned
:spaceflight right now is necessary or even helpful in achieving
:a longterm goal of moving mankind into space.
:
:I hope my values -- whatever you perceive them to be -- are not above
:question.

:	Paul F. Dietz
:	dietz@cs.rochester.edu

All true, and my comment about conservative values was kind of a cheap shot.  
I have great respect for Mr. Dietz, and know him to be a thoughtful and
careful writer, and it bothers me to disagree with him, even if the
disagreement is superficial.  I do not support the use of government funds
for manned space flight, or any space program for that matter.   I don't
believe that my personal feelings - or anybody else's - are relevant to the
political and economic questions of how to get the best value for investments
in space research.  I >do< believe that such emotions and the lack of them
are relevant to the larger questions of why man should or should not venture
personally into space, and why men should pursue goals of this type in the
first place, where these questions are considered on their own merits and not
on current feasibility.  Again, my apologies if this was not clear from my
previous posting. 

Michael Sloan MacLeod  (amdahl!drivax!macleod)