Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!UMASS.BITNET!Castell
From: Castell@UMASS.BITNET (Chip Olson@somewhere.out.there)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Space Resources
Message-ID: <890214185544858.AFZR@Mars.UCC.UMass.EDU>
Date: 15 Feb 89 00:04:33 GMT
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Lines: 91

From: amethyst!spock!chris@noao.edu  (Chris Ott)

A general comment: You have got to be kidding.

>I make no excuse for my utopianism and my optimism.
>We are running out of time, so somebody has to do it!
>And I'm getting tired od people arguing abd worrying about the future
>instead of creating it. Anyway.

 I don't see you doing any different from the rest of us.  If we're
running out of time, why don't we concentrate on keeping this earth
in some sort of habitable shape instead of proposing all these wild
fantasies that may be technologically possible, but could never be
accomplished within our lifetimes.

>Limits? I see no present evidence of limits? A limit can only be proved
>completly and beyond a shawdow of a doubt, after it has been tested an
>infinite amount of time, under an infinite number of conditions, forever.

 I could use the same theorem to cast doubt on the existence of the
 earth, or even on my own existence. Give me a break.

>  In the book "Interstellar Migration and the Human Experience", David
>  Criswell, Ph.D, demonstrates that there are enough resources in the
>  asteroid belt to construct an extremely massive infra-structure
>  consisting of 40 trillion people with 40,000 trillion tons of supporting
>  structure, occupying aporx. 1 billion cubic km - which is 1 millionth of
>  the space available in the L4 and L5 regions alone! All of these people
>  could be in contact via laser communication with 0.2 seconds in one
>  L-volume and aprox 1 second to the other L-volume and Earth. Since space
>  is frictionless, transportation between any two points in this matrix
>  would be almost nothing. This would end phase 1 of Solar system
>  development according to Criswell.

So what?  What relevance does this fascinating bit of trivia have to the
problems facing the world today?  Take your head out of the clouds, wake
up and smell the ozone.

>      He goes on to talk about phases 2 and 3 which would hinge upon the
>    theoretical technology (perhaps extremely high energy lasers) to
>    dismantle the outer planets, and then mine the sun. He has shown that

Do you have any idea what you are saying? Since we've already pretty much
ruined this planet, we should go out and carve up the others?

>    it would be theoretically possible to convert the sun into a white
>    dwarf, which would extend the lifetime of SOL 1,115 times. He calls
>    this process, "Stellar Lifting".

And just what would this do to the Sun's output? It'd counteract the
greenhouse effect but good, that's for sure.  And if the process changes
the mass of the Sun (stellar engineering isn't my field), the orbits of
every planet,asteroid and comet in the solar system would be radically
altered.

>       Using stellar lifting as a away of collecting the higher elements,
>   Criswell shows that a civilization consiting of 10(16) - 10(21) power
>   humans on a surface area equivalent to 1 billion earths would be
>   possible. This civilization, due to Sol's extended lifetime, would have
>   a potential lifespan of at least 10 trillion years. All of this is
>   possible within the solar system.

Excuse me, but just what makes you think we as a species are going to
last that long?  Even if we manage to avoid blowing ourselves up, the
solar system has been around for only 4.5 billion years. We as a species
have been around for a few million.  Compress that 4.5b years into a single
year, and _Homo sapiens_ shows up at 9 pm or so on December 31 (just in
time to crash the New Years' party). I hate to burst your bubble, but you
and I are just a couple of hairless apes with ideas above our station.
It is these kinds of attitudes that have ruined and are still ruining
the balance of life on this planet.  Now you want to go out and ruin the
balance of the solar system for good measure.

>    What limits?

Sure, "What limits?"  I won't dispute that it's theoretically possible
to accomplish all this.  But by the same token, it is just as theoretically
possible, and far more practically possible, to fix the damage we've done
to this planet (it's called Earth... you were born there... remember?).
None of what you propose can possibly, or even theoretically, be accom-
plished in your lifetime, or my lifetime, or those of our children and
great-grandchildren.  I'm far more interested in making this a more
livable planet for them than I am in pipe dreams.

@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*@#$%&*
(    )  Chip Olson, 808-B McNamara, UMass, Amherst, MA 01003 (413) 546-4474.
:\^^/:   "Why be difficult when with a bit of effort you can be impossible?"
(@::@)  Bitnet:     Castell@UMass.Bitnet
 \\//   Internet:   Castell%UMass.Bitnet@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
 (oo)   UUCP:       {blah!blah!blah}!mit-eddie!castell@umass.bitnet
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