Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!sharkey!mudos!mju
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Newsgroups: comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
Subject: Re: ARC/ZOO/ZIP for comp.binaries.ibm.pc
Message-ID: <111.2408C7E0@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us>
Date: 27 Feb 89 03:23:20 GMT
Organization: A neat desk is a sign of a crazy person.
Lines: 86

In article <1325@csm9a.UUCP>, japplega@csm9a.UUCP (Joe Applegate)
writes:
 > Amazing... whose code will PK pirate for PKZIP...
 > and whose compression format will he steal and market as 
 > his own????

'scuse me?  Last time I checked, Mr. Katz wrote the 'new' PK format code 
himself.  It was only SEA's ARC code that he stole...

 > We need another compression "standard" like we need a 
 > hole in the head!!!

 > I am seriously considering adding a statement to all my products to 
 > restrict their archiving with any PK product...  I already refuse 
 > to make available any downloads to my BBS that are not in ARC or 
 > ZOO format... make that REAL ARC format!

So you force your users (some of whom may be calling long-distance) to 
spend extra time (and money) to download something, just because you 
don't like the PK line of products?  Please, let me know what your BBS 
name is, so I remember never to call it.

 > The decision of whether to embrace one format or another based on 
 > availability of processing tools on UNIX is rediculous!  DOS programs
 > should be processed with DOS tools... the idea of unarcing a program 
 > on Unix and then transmitting multiple files at 30-50% the size 
 > when the .ARC file is available is not pratical... we have excellant 
 > tools for DOS... not only is ARC available for DOS but ZOO as well... 
 > and SIMTEL20 and many BBS' even carry Unix-style tools such as 
 > uudecode/uuencode, tar, ar, and even compress...

Stupid.  People don't unarc the programs under Unix and then download 
the componant files; they unarc them under Unix so they can read the 
docs, and decide whether or not it's worth the trouble to download it to 
their PC.  Remember that not everyone has a 9600 baud hardwire link from 
their Unix box to their PC.

Yes, compress and tar are available for MS-DOS.  But a 16-bit version of 
compress takes upwards of 500K to run, and is S-L-O-W.  A 50K file can 
take 10 minutes to uncompress on my 8MHz. PC (XT clone).  And the only 
version of tar I could find doesn't try to mung filenames - It just 
refuses to extract any file that doesn't fit into MS-DOS naming 
conventions.  And I know that I could split up a tar file by hand, but 
that's pointless when the file could be on a Unix machine, where it 
could be untar'd by a REAL tar.

Don't forget, my friend, that Usenet is primarily a network for 
Unix-based computers.  It's transmitted (mostly) by Unix computers.  The 
"gateway" software that's available for MS-DOS is kludgy at best.  (I 
can't comment about the VMS software, because I've never used it.)

 > Let's let posters use what ever format they want and let the reciever
 > use the available DOS tools to process it.  Yes, I suppose 
 > even ZIP... though personally PKWARE has caused so much grief 
 > with the adaption of a standard extension for a non-standard 
 > non-compatible product that I feel they ought to be black-listed 
 > amongst the PC user community!

Wonderful.  Now I'm going to have to keep SEA ARC, PKWare ARC, PKWare 
ZIP, ZOO, and PAK all on my hard disk, so I can be prepared to handle 
anything that might come over the net.  Great.  So much for a 
"standard".

I don't quite know what you mean by "standard extension for a 
non-standard non-compatible product".  I suspect that you have it 
switched, i.e. "non-standard non-compatible extension for a standard 
product".  If so, then it (FLAME ON) WASN'T THEIR F***ING FAULT! (FLAME 
OFF).  Yes, I suppose that they could have not pirated SEA's code in the 
first place.  But I personally consider the PKARC/PKXARC programs a 
welcome add-on to the SEA code.  They're faster and produce smaller 
archives.  Remember that SEA sued PKWare and won.  The terms of the 
settlement included banning PKWare from EVER producing an ARC-compatable 
product.  Enter PKZIP.

I think that the only "grief" that's being felt is among those who 
converted everything to NoGate's PAK when it first came out, and are now 
being forced to convert to ZIP.  The only thing I can say is "toldyaso."

--- Sirius 0.50

--  
Marc Unangst
UUCP          : mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us
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Internet      : mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us