Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cornell!biar!jhood
From: jhood@biar.UUCP (John Hood)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems
Subject: Re: Courier HST rebuttal
Summary: It's a good modem, but not for Unix
Keywords: HST BLAZER
Message-ID: <149@biar.UUCP>
Date: 24 Feb 89 07:53:54 GMT
References: <415@studsys.mu.edu> <3004@ddsw1.MCS.COM>
Reply-To: jhood@biar.UUCP (John Hood)
Organization: Biar Games Inc., Ithaca, NY
Lines: 97

In article <3004@ddsw1.MCS.COM> karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger) writes:
>In article <415@studsys.mu.edu> kowals@studsys.mu.edu (kowalski) writes:

>But it is not V.32 if I remember correctly (or is the modem truly V.32
>capable?).  This means you're not compatible with V.32, or the Telebit 
>PEP installed base.  For Unix use, the fact that every Bow-wow BBS (Fido)
>has one is 100% irrelavent when making a purchase decision.

It's a half-duplex variant of V.32 with a slow back channel added.
In other words, it's not V.32 at all.  They will soon introduce a
model with V.32 capability.

>...
>Not from what I can see.  Note also that the software, from what I see in 
>the configuration info, will talk nicely to a Telebit as well! (note: Telebits
>run 14kbaud max uncompressed data rate, HSTs run 9.6kbaud uncompressed.... 
>guess which modem should do better with the HST/ix software?)

Currently, the Telebit, but US Robotics is just about to introduce a
14400 bps variant of their modem (vaporware, but not much longer.)

>I can buy two Telebits as an Internet site for the cost of ONE of your
>Courier HST/ix's.  Earlier as a Usenet site I could do the same thing.  The
>cost of the HST/ix solution is effectively twice the price of the Telebit way.

Not if you run a BBS, or (I think also) a public-access Unix machine.
Both of these qualify for USR's half price sysop deal, which cuts the
price of the modem to $495, and you don't get the apparently useless
HST/ix software (grin).  I do believe, Karl, that you fall into this
category.

>o The HST modems give some 2400 baud non-MNP capable units, and all AT&T
>  3b1's, fits.  They simply won't connect with them AT ALL if you have
>  high-speed enabled (that is, not &M0).

This is only a problem when dialing out; it should be easy enough to
stick the appropriate &M0 command into the L.sys entry for that
particular machine.  The Telebit has similar problems with its three
little chirps and modems that attempt to recognize voice answers
(including the HST ;)

>A note:
>
>o We only tested it locally (in-building) between two Xenix systems on two
>  local phone lines.  I have no idea how well (or if) it copes with 
>  long-distance telephone lines and/or overseas connections.  USR didn't 
>  feel like giving out names of other sites across the country for us to 
>  poll..... nor did they tell anyone else to try polling us (although I did
>  tell them we'd be more than happy to have them give our name & number out).

Telebit apparently has the edge for lousy phone lines, especially
overseas.  For a UUCP link, dig up a copy of the pubnix public access
Unix list and find oncoast, in PA.  He is running an HST there.  I can
tell you this: you'll get about 160 cps through an HST with UUCP; the
two are badly mismatched.  Alternately, I could call you from my Unix
machine at home, but I make no claims to having the HST/ix software
either.

>I have no affiliation with either USR or Telebit except as a normal paying
>customer of both firms.  We own both Telebit and HST modems.  
>
>--
>Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, ddsw1!karl)
>Data: [+1 312 566-8912], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910]
>Macro Computer Solutions, Inc.    	"Quality solutions at a fair price"

I have a USR modem at home, running a BBS, and we have a Telebit on
order for our UUCP feeds, both under the discount programs.

I happen to think that the USR and the Telebit are both good modems,
and very usable for their respective markets.  The USR technically
makes a terrible Unix modem (except for interactive dialin, where it
would be pretty good), and the Telebit technically makes a so-so BBS
modem.  They're both pretty useless outside of their respective
markets because no one else has one.  The awfulness of the HST as a
Unix modem, by the way, has more to do with the inefficiency of the 'g'
protocol than anything else.  Telebit implemented it in the modem, USR
didn't.  I think Telebit's action effectively cut off any potential
development of better UUCP protocols, which would really have been the
better way to go.

I await the nearly-here day when both companies have a V.32 variant of
their modems; then internetworking Fidonet and Usenet will be a more
practical exercise than it is now.

I think the HST/ix seems like an ill-conceived effort to sell modems
to the wrong audience; fortunately, USR seems not to be pushing it too
hard.  As I recall, it wasn't even in their price list they sent me a
while back.  Mr. Kowalski does seem too exuberant about the modem's
use for Unix.

  --jh

-- 
John Hood, Biar Games snail: 10 Spruce Lane, Ithaca NY 14850 BBS: 607 257 3423
domain: jhood@biar.UUCP bang: ...!{princeton!labii,hombre!lgnp1}!biar!jhood
"My mommy told me not to put beans in my ears"-- some forgotten record